Diesel heater, thoughts.

[Dylancch]

I really wish they would make a liquid diesel heater webasto that could bolt in easy, I'd love to not lose range in the winter, and at a minor cost of diesel it would be amazing. Anyone else have this idea, and do you think it could be installed into existing heating lines, now for you guys who think its silly, my 900km trip I take on a monthly basis went from 2 charges, up to 6 charges and it's only 5 below outside Celsius and at a cost from 20$ up to 40$

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[Fat Mach]

Anything is possible. My dad's 1939 Ford Deluxe Convertible Sedan has a gasoline heater under the dash. If it sounds sketch, it's because it is.

 

[Dylancch]

Anything is possible. My dad's 1939 Ford Deluxe Convertible Sedan has a gasoline heater under the dash. If it sounds sketch, it's because it is.

They have come along ways since then. It would be in the frunk, probably right before the main heater

 

[JamieGeek]

I really wish they would make a liquid diesel heater webasto that could bolt in easy, I'd love to not lose range in the winter, and at a minor cost of diesel it would be amazing. Anyone else have this idea, and do you think it could be installed into existing heating lines, now for you guys who think its silly, my 900km trip I take on a monthly basis went from 2 charges, up to 6 charges and it's only 5 below outside Celsius and at a cost from 20$ up to 40$

You're still going to lose range: Cold batteries simply can't provide as much power as warm batteries.

Unless you want to use your heater to heat the batteries too.

If you precondition plugged in before leaving to go somewhere the range loss isn't as significant.

 

[Jimrpa]

I really wish they would make a liquid diesel heater webasto that could bolt in easy, I'd love to not lose range in the winter, and at a minor cost of diesel it would be amazing. Anyone else have this idea, and do you think it could be installed into existing heating lines, now for you guys who think its silly, my 900km trip I take on a monthly basis went from 2 charges, up to 6 charges and it's only 5 below outside Celsius and at a cost from 20$ up to 40$

Diesel? Cheap? I just drove past a gas station (I think they're called "petrol stations" in Canadian) and Diesel is over $4.00 US per Gallon (and I have no idea what that is in liters/litres - I think maybe about $2.00 US?) Anyway, given that I just signed up for TOU billing from my utility, I'll happily take the range hit and charge more frequently.

 

[dtbaker61]

I really wish they would make a liquid diesel heater webasto that could bolt in easy, I'd love to not lose range in the winter, and at a minor cost of diesel it would be amazing. Anyone else have this idea, and do you think it could be installed into existing heating lines, now for you guys who think its silly, my 900km trip I take on a monthly basis went from 2 charges, up to 6 charges and it's only 5 below outside Celsius and at a cost from 20$ up to 40$

I would suggest a $30 electric blanket.... plug into 12v outlet, and bundle up... it will feel a lot warmer, and only require 50 watts or so rather than 1500+watts the e-heat is sucking up heating the entire cabin.

https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Bla...t-BLACK/dp/B006A1PGDE/ref=asc_df_B006A1PGDE/?

 

[timbop]

that sounds like a horrible idea.

 

[Glen]

Not into the diesel heater thing at all. Imho

 

[ARK]

OP, have you tried preconditioning the vehicle before leaving home/the charger and then disabling the electric heater after you start driving? The Mach-E says it is able to heat the cabin from the heat it generates outside of using the e-heater, i.e. the resistive heater. Perhaps leave the e-heat on for a bit once you start driving to give a chance for the drivetrain to heat up before turning off the e-heat? I’m guessing this heat must come from somewhere in the drivetrain.

This is what I am referring to:

Frankly, the temperatures you are experiencing may be far too cold for this to work. I’ve never tried it because I haven’t really had any chance to mess around it with it yet, it hasn’t been cold enough.

But I haven’t seen anyone talk about this feature on the forum, whether it works, whether it’s ineffective, etc. As someone said though, it’s easier to maintain heat than bring the cabin up to heat, so this method of heating may work if the resistive heater is used (ideally with preconditioning) to first get the temperature up before disabling it and then using this non-resistive heater to maintain the temperature.

 

[JSeis]

My weather conditions are rainy and mild, low 50’s to mid 40’s. I put on e-heat, set temp to 76 F, heat sector to window glass and basically manually defog the window when it fogs up about every couple of minutes, only takes maybe a 15 second blast at fan setting 1. This uses 4% of climate in an hour. I’ve also used auto E-heat on it’s lowest setting and that uses about 11% in an hour with temp set to 65F and recirculate air set. Once temps dip into the low 40’s or lower all bets are off.

 

[Mach-Lee]

OP, have you tried preconditioning the vehicle before leaving home/the charger and then disabling the electric heater after you start driving? The Mach-E says it is able to heat the cabin from the heat it generates outside of using the e-heater, i.e. the resistive heater. Perhaps leave the e-heat on for a bit once you start driving to give a chance for the drivetrain to heat up before turning off the e-heat? I’m guessing this heat must come from somewhere in the drivetrain.

This is what I am referring to:

Frankly, the temperatures you are experiencing may be far too cold for this to work. I’ve never tried it because I haven’t really had any chance to mess around it with it yet, it hasn’t been cold enough.

But I haven’t seen anyone talk about this feature on the forum, whether it works, whether it’s ineffective, etc. As someone said though, it’s easier to maintain heat than bring the cabin up to heat, so this method of heating may work if the resistive heater is used (ideally with preconditioning) to first get the temperature up before disabling it and then using this non-resistive heater to maintain the temperature.

That message is misleading, they need to edit it because whoever wrote it didn't fully understand the Mach-E's thermal system. This has been covered in several other topics about heat, but the only source of cabin heat besides the resistive HV heater is the battery waste heat. However with lithium batteries there is almost no waste heat during operation, so that means the E-heat is the only way to effectively heat the cabin. The motor waste heat cannot be transferred to the cabin because they use a completely separate cooling loop. Therefore if you want cabin heat you must turn E-heat on, or you will be cold.

Message should read:

"When E-Heat is on, an electrical heater is used to warm the cabin. Disabling this feature will turn off cabin heating, saving battery power and extending your driving range."

I strongly recommend you precondition the cabin in the winter, and leave the climate control in automatic operation for the most comfort and efficiency. Once the cabin is warmed up, the heat is not as significant of a draw as you think (maybe only a kW or two), so only 10-20% of your battery unless you are driving slow.

 

[DevSecOps]

I was just about to say @Mach-Lee is the one to ask about this and I'll link the last time he commented on cold weather for him... you can find that here: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/cold-weather-whered-the-power-go.10896/post-272779

@ARK ... I forgot that a white screen is an option on the MME ?

defog the window when it fogs up about every couple of minutes

It's a common issue with EV's that the windshields easily fog up... It's quite annoying.

 

[ARK]

That message is misleading, they need to edit it because whoever wrote it didn't fully understand the Mach-E's thermal system. This has been covered in several other topics about heat, but the only source of cabin heat besides the resistive HV heater is the battery waste heat. However with lithium batteries there is almost no waste heat during operation, so that means the E-heat is the only way to effectively heat the cabin. The motor waste heat cannot be transferred to the cabin because they use a completely separate cooling loop. Therefore if you want cabin heat you must turn E-heat on, or you will be cold.

Message should read:

"When E-Heat is on, an electrical heater is used to warm the cabin. Disabling this feature will turn off cabin heating, saving battery power and extending your driving range."

I strongly recommend you precondition the cabin in the winter, and leave the climate control in automatic operation for the most comfort and efficiency. Once the cabin is warmed up, the heat is not as significant of a draw as you think (maybe only a kW or two), so only 10-20% of your battery unless you are driving slow.

Thanks for this. Do you think there is a chance it could come from the motors though, not from the battery? For example, I have read Tesla uses heat from its motors to warm up the battery (see article on 2016 Model S). Couldn't this sort of heat be sent to the cabin instead?

On the other hand, I think that Tesla method for battery heating works better on the 3 and Y now because they have the inefficient (heat generating) induction motors up front (I think the 2016 Model S had induction motors too before switching to a type of permanent magnet synchronous motor with Raven powertrain a few years later). The Mach-E, like the post-Raven S/X has permanent magnet synchronous motors in the front and rear, which produces less waste heat, so maybe this wouldn't work as well, but then again how much heat do you need to warm a cabin to 70 degrees vs a battery to 115 degrees.

I'd be interested to test this.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Thanks for this. Do you think there is a chance it could come from the motors though, not from the battery? For example, I have read Tesla uses heat from its motors to warm up the battery (see article on 2016 Model S). Couldn't this sort of heat be sent to the cabin instead?

On the other hand, I think that Tesla method for battery heating works better on the 3 and Y now because they have the inefficient (heat generating) induction motors up front (I think the 2016 Model S had induction motors too before switching to a type of permanent magnet synchronous motor with Raven powertrain a few years later). The Mach-E, like the post-Raven S/X has permanent magnet synchronous motors in the front and rear, which produces less waste heat, so maybe this wouldn't work as well, but then again how much heat do you need to warm a cabin to 70 degrees vs a battery to 115 degrees.

I'd be interested to test this.

There is no way to get the motor heat in the cabin, not a chance, because the coolant loops are not connected to each other. Teslas have a different thermal design. And yes, just driving a constant speed in the winter the motors aren't going to be producing that much heat because they are fairly efficient.

The battery will probably only be warmed to 41ºF in the winter, which is the minimum operating temp. Even if you warm up the battery 20ºF with heavy driving (to 60ºF) that's not going to be warm enough to extract any usable heat. Because of the second law of thermodynamics (heat can only transfer from hot to cold), you really need a 100ºF+ coolant source to use for cabin heating. You'll never get the motors or battery that hot in the winter unless you're hooning in a GTPE, so the HV heater is really the only place you're going to get heat from.

 

[Bodyshopguy]

You're still going to lose range: Cold batteries simply can't provide as much power as warm batteries.

Unless you want to use your heater to heat the batteries too.

If you precondition plugged in before leaving to go somewhere the range loss isn't as significant.

Interesting thought... to be able to warm up the batteries... with the coolant... even more interesting while it's plugged in at home prior to use... I live in Southern California... but, other states, other countries... it makes sense. Maybe, put that guys heating blanket on the floor board or underside... just kidding... it was funny though.

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