Drive for two hours - Charge for an hour road trip.

[superdave80]

Quick question before we start: Why so angry?
I live in Northern California.
Nice try at... what?
Given that I've made high elevation cold trips to Oregon and Lake Tahoe, they've gone fine. Thanks for asking.
I just saw North Bend as the eastern-most point next to Seattle that had some DC chargers where you could top up to 100% if you were really concerned about making the trek.
No. No confusion. I quoted the exact part of your post that I was replying to.
I didn't ignore anything. I quoted you in my post exactly what I was replying to:

"...unless you want to show charging along I-90 from Seattle to Spokane. I think you'll find that it is completely lacking... "

So I 'showed' charging along I-90 from Seattle (OK, North Bend... sue me) to Spokane was a reasonable distance and had several chargers along the way. I did exactly as you asked, and you are still pissy for some reason
Unless Spokane is on the East Coast, I don't know what the length of I-90 has to do with anything.
This route is not "crossing the state", which is over 400 miles, not the 280 (250?) we are talking about. Hey, if you can be pedantic, so can I.
Colder at higher elevations??? You mean like in Klamath Fall or Lake Tahoe where I frequently drive to? I NEVER noticed this! Go on, tell me more and educate me!
You really like this phrase, don't you?
I mean, you REALLY like it.
Except it wasn't six chargers, it was six charging LOCATIONS.
" and I count 6 DC charger locations along I-90. "
Well, Christ, I hope not. I didn't think you would leave them home to fend for themselves.

Look, I'm baffled why you came out swinging at me. I did nothing else than list the distance and number of fast chargers along a route you brought up.

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[superdave80]

The gas lighting in this thread has gotten out of control.

The WHAT?

Over 3 mi / kWH in the winter on the highway? No freaking way.

Yes freakin' way. I could give two craps if you believe me or not, but ask yourself this: What possible reason could I have to make this up?

Guy seems to think I should get 250 miles of range in the winter.

No, I don't. Why do you think this? I NEVER said you could go 250 miles in winter.

As I asked the very, very angry man in my last post, PLEASE read carefully before replying.

 

[RickMachE]

Same, my wife doesn't want to deal with playing musical chargers. She doesn't know what a kw or a kwh is and she shouldn't have to. Also I'd be worried if she arrives at a dead charging station and is stuck. No thanks.

So learning, and expanding one's knowledge, is unacceptable. Got it.

 

[kltye]

So learning, and expanding one's knowledge, is unacceptable. Got it.

Didn't you know? Wives are incapable of taking care of themselves, learning new things, or doing math. I mean I'm surprised they even know how to open the car doors!

 

[RickMachE]

One of the common rebuttals against people expressing dismay towards the Mach-E/charging infrastructure is "plan more" or "plan better." That's a cop out.

I've done three small road trips in my Mach-E (under 300 miles for given trip). In each of the trips, I had a plan A, B, and C when it came to charging. In two of the three trips, I had to result to makeshift plan D or E! If you're roadtripping by yourself or not trying to get anywhere at a certain time, that might be ok. However, the VAST majority of folks aren't roadtripping alone and they are trying to get to their destinations by a certain time.

Anyone coming in with a laundry list of things the OP should have done don't get it. EVs are hitting mainstream. Heck, it is estimated that 1 million brand new EVs will be sold in the USA alone in 2023. Where is the charging infrastructure for that? People that aren't intimately familiar with the nuances of different charging processes, connectors, preparation steps, and the smorgasbord of mobile apps are going to have the experience that the OP of this thread had and what I experienced. So when I see that other thread of people not wanting to buy another EV, it makes total sense. The core purpose of any vehicle is to get you to where you want to go. The Mach-E, and the rest of the CCS EVs just can't do that for most people, at least not yet.

Anyone who buys an EV without understanding the charging infrastructure, in short, "did it to themselves". In otherwords, if you are too ______ to understand how your $60,000 vehicle gets fueled, and the potential challenges, before buying it - that is 100% on you.

Some years ago the guy down the street with the biggest house bought a car at the autos show because it was expensive and shiny. I found him on the tiny hill on our street, spinning at high speed in the tiny snowfall we got. The car had nice summer tires... I ended up towing him up the hill. Then he couldn't drive on the flat road either, had to tow him up to his driveway. Laughed my ass off the whole way home.

A guy posted on FB trying to understand why all his right wheels were gouged up, because he keeps driving against curbs. Would it be covered under warranty?

Sorry, but if people want to post that 2 hours of driving takes 1 hour of charging, I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous and gets the responses it deserves.

 

[Old Guy]

Which is why I’ve ordered a 2023 Lexus hybrid and will be trading in the Mach e when it arrives.

 

[Phil Martin]

So learning, and expanding one's knowledge, is unacceptable. Got it.

The charging network is a piece of shit, so why deal with that mess?

The CCS network is an embarrassment.

 

[kltye]

One of the common rebuttals against people expressing dismay towards the Mach-E/charging infrastructure is "plan more" or "plan better." That's a cop out.

I used to make frequent trips between Chicago and southern WV in a gas car. I still had to plan, because a) I wanted the best gas prices; b) I didn't want to fill my car up at random gas stations with unknown quality of gas. I only stopped twice each way, including bathroom trips. I've also had to change routes due to accidents, weather, etc. I think roadtrip planning is important no matter what.

I've done three small road trips in my Mach-E (under 300 miles for given trip). In each of the trips, I had a plan A, B, and C when it came to charging. In two of the three trips, I had to result to makeshift plan D or E! If you're roadtripping by yourself or not trying to get anywhere at a certain time, that might be ok. However, the VAST majority of folks aren't roadtripping alone and they are trying to get to their destinations by a certain time.

I've made the above-mentioned journey in the MME multiple times, in winter, during the holidays. So you could say I had to arrive at a certain time. I've also driven to the UP of Michigan, and down to middle of nowhere, MO. Guess what? Plan A has succeeded every time. Do I think this is universal? No. But I do also live in the midwest, so it's not exactly most friendly places for EVs. Am I retired? Nope, have a full time job to pay off this car. Bonus: I now arrive much more refreshed at the end of my trips, compared to my days of blasting around, making F1-style pit stops, etc. The time needed to recuperate from all that nonsense is about the time needed to charge.

Anyone coming in with a laundry list of things the OP should have done don't get it. EVs are hitting mainstream. Heck, it is estimated that 1 million brand new EVs will be sold in the USA alone in 2023. Where is the charging infrastructure for that? People that aren't intimately familiar with the nuances of different charging processes, connectors, preparation steps, and the smorgasbord of mobile apps are going to have the experience that the OP of this thread had and what I experienced. So when I see that other thread of people not wanting to buy another EV, it makes total sense. The core purpose of any vehicle is to get you to where you want to go. The Mach-E, and the rest of the CCS EVs just can't do that for most people, at least not yet.

There are two connectors: J1772 and CCS. You can't plug in at Tesla Superchargers. Done. Just like you need to fill a BMW up with 91/93 octane, or you can't fill up a VW TDI with regular gas. How will people ever figure it out?!

And saying CCS EVs "can't get you where you want to go... for most people" is, frankly, overstating the point. I know many, many city drivers here with CSS and Tesla EVs (with no at-home charging) and yet, we seemingly are able to get around! I've put 20,000 miles on the car since June 2021, so I think I use the car an average amount.

I think I have something useful no one else has, though. No, it's not a larger battery. Nope, not more aerodynamic wheels. It's is a girlfriend who isn't allergic to learning or doing simple math! As I said in a thread elsewhere, maybe that'll change once I put a ring on it? ??

 

[dbsb3233]

Tesla is only in on the CCS charging due to government incentives, otherwise why would they want to get into this hot mess of EV car charging? They have their system to sell cars, they don't make money on it either

I've come around to thinking that Tesla really has found a way to make DCFC profitable, while CCS networks are likely nowhere close. In large part because they make their own chargers, but they also have the volume and perfected the installation and maintenance process that others are struggling with. And at the stations that have battery backup, they make those too.

One article from last year said that data suggested that it costs Tesla just 1/5th the cost per Supercharger than a normal CCS DCFC. That sounds like a stretch, but something in the 2:1 or 3:1 range looks plausible. Tesla submitted a number of $30k per charger for a Texas grant program offing a 70% subsidy last year. That calculates to $43k per SC full cost. Most CCS DCFC costs in various state programs are usually closer to $200k each. Ford's dealership DCFC units show an $85k cost to dealers, and that's likely a cheaper wholesale rate.

In any case, Tesla appears to have gotten the costs WAY down. And they sell charging at WAY higher volume. Even before the NEVI money was dangled in front of them, they were embarking on rapid expansions of the SC network. If it wasn't already profitable at that point, it was probably close. How with the NEVI money, it's likely quite profitable for them. No one else looks even close.

 

[RickMachE]

The charging network is a piece of shit, so why deal with that mess?

The CCS network is an embarrassment.

Don't. Don't buy an EV. Or sell yours. Not for you. Got it. Bye.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I am convinced based upon some of these trip reports that Ford must have given me a defective battery pack

Nah, nothing defective about your battery pack. They just gave you the wrong one. You should probably start another thread on that as we haven't had an "I got the wrong Battery" thread in what, 13 hours?

 

[Phil Martin]

I've come around to thinking that Tesla really has found a way to make DCFC profitable, while CCS networks are likely nowhere close. In large part because they make their own chargers, but they also have the volume and perfected the installation and maintenance process that others are struggling with. And at the stations that have battery backup, they make those too.

One article from last year said that data suggested that it costs Tesla just 1/5th the cost per Supercharger than a normal CCS DCFC. That sounds like a stretch, but something in the 2:1 or 3:1 range looks plausible. Tesla submitted a number of $30k per charger for a Texas grant program offing a 70% subsidy last year. That calculates to $43k per SC full cost. Most CCS DCFC costs in various state programs are usually closer to $200k each. Ford's dealership DCFC units show an $85k cost to dealers, and that's likely a cheaper wholesale rate.

In any case, Tesla appears to have gotten the costs WAY down. And they sell charging at WAY higher volume. Even before the NEVI money was dangled in front of them, they were embarking on rapid expansions of the SC network. If it wasn't already profitable at that point, it was probably close. How with the NEVI money, it's likely quite profitable for them. No one else looks even close.

The reason why it's much less costly for Tesla is because of the utilization factor after demand charges. It's significantly less expensive on cost with medium and high use facilities. A low use facility can cost hundreds of dollars for one charge. The utility demand fee can be 75% of that cost. Once you get over 50kW, demand fees skyrocket on low use facilities. High use facilities, it might be just a few dollars per charge at 50kW.

The batteries they use, I would think are to also help offset demand charges.

 

[mu5e]

The infrastructure is not there yet, don't know how many years it will take but as of now you are correct, it is not there yet to be able to find a working charger and charge at will

Infrastructure is only one problem, it will not help with the slow charging speed compared to Tesla. Ford battery technology is not there yet.
Best case s enario you found a perfect charger, you would have to spend at least 45 mins charging anyway.
2-2.5 hrs driving + 45 min charging us still miserable for long trips.

 

[dbsb3233]

The reason why it's much less costly for Tesla is because of the utilization factor after demand charges. It's significantly less expensive on cost with medium and high use facilities. A low use facility can cost hundreds of dollars for one charge. The utility demand fee can be 75% of that cost. Once you get over 50kW, demand fees skyrocket on low use facilities. High use facilities, it might be just a few dollars per charge at 50kW.

The batteries they use, I would think are to also help offset demand charges.

Yeah, that's pretty much the only reason to add very expensive batteries - to offset also very expensive demand charges necessitated by very costly peak supply from the power company.

Wouldn't be as bad if people DCFC'd at 4am instead of 4pm, but of course that's not when most people do it.

 

[kennethjk]

Infrastructure is only one problem, it will not help with the slow charging speed compared to Tesla. Ford battery technology is not there yet.
Best case s enario you found a perfect charger, you would have to spend at least 45 mins charging anyway.
2-2.5 hrs driving + 45 min charging us still miserable for long trips.

I agree, I think Ford blew it by not using a more advanced or faster charging structure for the car.

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