Elon's Prediction

[Mach1E]

If people actually gave a crap and looked after each other this, thread probably wouldn't even exist and we likely wouldn't have a workers strike.

FWIW, this is why I appreciate working for a company that’s a large partnership. No passive investors, no corporate BS, no shareholders demanding profits. And the general partners that run the company? They have unlimited liability.

Really changes how things are done.

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[Auto Motive]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ead-to-detroit-three-s-bankruptcies#xj4y7vzkg

I'm sure Elon will be heart broken if his prediction of the Big 3 demise comes true. But, if the results of a strike settlement raises the price of EVs $3,000-$5,000 won't bode well for a product that majority of consumers cannot afford. Cost of EV manufacturing will eventually come down but we aren't seeing yet. Of course, it's hard to differentiate reality and strike rhetoric.

Ev are coming down especially tesla. Our y AWD long range with custom paint and wheels cost $53k minus full tax credit. Our GTPE cost $69500 minus credit.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ead-to-detroit-three-s-bankruptcies#xj4y7vzkg

I'm sure Elon will be heart broken if his prediction of the Big 3 demise comes true. But, if the results of a strike settlement raises the price of EVs $3,000-$5,000 won't bode well for a product that majority of consumers cannot afford. Cost of EV manufacturing will eventually come down but we aren't seeing yet. Of course, it's hard to differentiate reality and strike rhetoric.

1. Pricing is set by the market, not costs. Prices are always the highest price possible that results in sales. In the rare occasions they’re lower, it’s because the company has other reasons.

2. There is at least one website that tracks Mr. Musk’s predictions. His track record is less than stellar on virtually everything.

 

[ThatGuyLando]

Thinking that assembly line workers, basically robots, should be paid at ?

How dare we think of them as people.

Jesus Christ...

 

[DevSecOps]

How dare we think of them as people.

Jesus Christ...

If that's how you think I meant it, it shows more about your mentality than mine. An assembly line worker does robotic work. Repetitious similar work of a person is considered robotic. Which is exactly why they are being replaced by robots and because they are demanding 4x the average wage for the area they live in. Should we also ban the usage of "high skill labor" because it implies that others aren't skilled? C'mon...

 

[Ghost Ryder]

@Mach1E @ThatGuyLando @Maquis
40% was not pulled out of thin air. It's how much executive salaries went up since workers made huge contract concessions in 2009. That number was chosen to make people aware of that fact and to get our attention. As for the 4-day week, when you were a kid, didn't you to ask for more than you think you'll get, because you might get it? Labor negotiation is no different. Let's turn down the heat.

Alright. But how many hours a week does a CEO work? I’m guessing it’s way north of 40 hours. So will the worker agree to work 60-80 hours a week for a 40% bump?

 

[corradoborg]

Alright. But how many hours a week does a CEO work? I’m guessing it’s way north of 40 hours. So will the worker agree to work 60-80 hours a week for a 40% bump?

Depends which CEO. Some do actual work. Many of them make every decision from a golf course or a private jet. Just as nobody's full-time work is worth less than living wage, nobody's full-time work is worth hundreds of times more than anyone else's either. In the 1950s, the average CEO made 20 times what their average employee was paid, and they were considered "ultra-rich." Now, some CEOs are making 400+ times what their average worker is paid. What changed? It certainly wasn't the relative levels of performance of the CEOs and their employees.

 

[hartmms]

I'm curious - why are these threads in the General Mach E category instead of the "auto industry" category?

While I fall victim to reading the click bait thread titles as much as the next person, this thread is not mach e specific. I could better train myself to ignore them if they were categorized properly.

 

[mkhuffman]

Depends which CEO. Some do actual work. Many of them make every decision from a golf course or a private jet. Just as nobody's full-time work is worth less than living wage, nobody's full-time work is worth hundreds of times more than anyone else's either. In the 1950s, the average CEO made 20 times what their average employee was paid, and they were considered "ultra-rich." Now, some CEOs are making 400+ times what their average worker is paid. What changed? It certainly wasn't the relative levels of performance of the CEOs and their employees.

It is simply supply and demand - basic economics. Good CEOs are very hard to find. Good CEOs that actually understand the automobile industry are even harder to find. It is a tiny pool of people and companies who want to succeed try to find the best CEO they can. So they have to pay enough to lure them away from other options, and that drives up compensation.

You want the best CEO running your company as an assembly line worker, because that one person could totally destroy the company and drive thousands of people out of work if they perform badly. Is that what you want? What is it you expect anyway?

 

[tuminatr]

I actually think Elon is right. The tough point the market sets the price, not the companies at the time of launch the MME was a good deal today it is not competitive.

The real comparison here should be not what the CEO pays VS the union workers it should be what the union is asking for in line with the market and what other similar jobs pay.

One other thought if one of the demands is getting paid for 40 hours and only working 32 that in itself is a 20% raise. For example, if you get paid $1000 for 32 hours of work that is $31.25 per hour. $1000 bucks for 40 hours of work is $25 per hour.

So in effect, if there asking for a 40% wage bump and 32-hour work weeks they are asking for a 60% increase in pay.

To be very clear I have not checked their contract proposal out and don't know if the demands are reasonable or not. I also don't know if UAW workers are being paid much less than other similar similar positions in the market.

 

[Mirak]

I support private sector unions, but I’m not sure the Big 3 can really be considered private sector anymore. And if we’re going to support unions, then we need to also support management’s decision to fire employees who strike. Everybody’s gotta have commensurate risk or there is less incentive to negotiate reasonably.

Also, pitting “the workers” versus “the executives” is just union agitprop. It is a red herring. Comparing the pay of tens of thousands of workers to a handful of executives is utterly irrelevant. You could take every dime from those few executives, spread it across the entire workforce, and the impact would be negligible. The real conflict is between the tens of thousands of workers, and hundreds of thousands of investors. Those investors (many of whom are the workers) expect a reasonable return on investment. And they should, given that they’ve risked their investments.

 

[MellowJohnny]

What gets me is the “huge profits” argument for wage increases. Unless a corporation has an explicit profit sharing plan, generally speaking employees are not “entitled” to share in profits. Especially in public companies - the profits, in the form of dividends, go to the shareholders, who are the ones who own the company.

Bottom line is profits belong to the shareholders, not the employees.

 

[Mirak]

What gets me is the “huge profits” argument for wage increases. Unless a corporation has an explicit profit sharing plan, generally speaking employees are not “entitled” to share in profits. Especially in public companies - the profits, in the form of dividends, go to the shareholders, who are the ones who own the company.

Bottom line is profits belong to the shareholders, not the employees.

The workers do not agree with you. They’ve got the muscle, and they’re darn well gonna flex it.

 

[Mach1E]

The workers do not agree with you. They’ve got the muscle, and they’re darn well gonna flex it.

And they’ve been flexing hard since the 1950s. Remember when Detroit was a thriving city?…….. back in the 1950s……

 

[mkhuffman]

Unions should be voluntary. When you are forced to join a union just to work for a particular business or within a particular industry, you know they are not legitimate.

If they legitimately add value to the employee, the employee will choose to join. If not, they won't. Obviously the unions that force you to join know they wouldn't exist without that force. Most of them would die away.

The best employees don't need a union. It's only the lazy ones and poor performers who need a union. Is it reality a surprise that unions kill businesses? Not to me.

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