Elon's Prediction

[kennethjk]

It is simply supply and demand - basic economics. Good CEOs are very hard to find. Good CEOs that actually understand the automobile industry are even harder to find. It is a tiny pool of people and companies who want to succeed try to find the best CEO they can. So they have to pay enough to lure them away from other options, and that drives up compensation.

You want the best CEO running your company as an assembly line worker, because that one person could totally destroy the company and drive thousands of people out of work if they perform badly. Is that what you want? What is it you expect anyway?

Well you are right, except how many 40,000 sq ft homes does someone need.

I mean, I am sure an excellent CEO could skate by with $10 million a year instead of $25 million. Would the extra money go to the line workers, no, and even if it did it wouldn’t amount to any real money to each person but the perception is that its out of control and I am or was in the financial world my entire career And think it is out of control.

plenty of CEOs that fail walk away with tens of millions in comp.

regarding unions, I have mixed emotions but to think that employees would always get a fair deal from employers without them isn’t realistic either.

mixed bag, we want a strong middle class so you have to pay people. But everyone wants to buy the cheapest product which means low wages and going overseas.

hard to have both high wages for Americans and then the cheapest US product.

I haven’t figured that one out yet.

the union will not get the 40% and reduced work week, just negotiating tactics, at least that’s what I think

One more last thing, I am a full fledged capitalist who thinks there has to be a middle ground In all this but above my pay grade.

Sponsored

 

[DevSecOps]

the union will not get the 40% and reduced work week, just negotiating tactics, at least that’s what I think

They wanted 40% over 4 years, if I remember correctly, and Ford agreed to 10% over 1 year. So basically Ford caved into their demands hoping that in a year they can re-negotiate. I think they're just kicking the ball down the road.

Edit: I was thinking of the Canadian agreement, not the US one ...

 

[kennethjk]

They wanted 40% over 4 years, if I remember correctly, and Ford agreed to 10% over 1 year. So basically Ford caved into their demands hoping that in a year they can re-negotiate. I think they're just kicking the ball down the road.

I didn't Know that, last I read was that 20% was offered over 4.5 years. I guess I have to catch up on my reading.

in any event, they won’t get 40% over 4 years and reduced work week.

 

[DevSecOps]

I didn't Know that, last I read was that 20% was offered over 4.5 years. I guess I have to catch up on my reading.

in any event, they won’t get 40% over 4 years and reduced work week.

I stand corrected. I was thinking of the agreement made with Canadian unions, not the US ones. I don't think the UAW one is worked out yet with Ford. Quick googling says that there are still "significant gaps" in what the two sides want but that Ford agreed to profit sharing.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

I don't mind union striking or using other tactics to "negotiate." that's their right to seek the highest pay. But when they have the full force of the gov't behind them, forcing companies to cave, then that's when they lose my support.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

Ford reported $1.8Billion in profits earlier this year, if paying their employees more comfortable wages causes their cars to cost more, then they can piss off and don't deserve our money ?‍

Other tidbits: FYE'22 net add to cash - $5 billion. Current cash balance (excluding short term investments) - $25 billion. Company is liquid based on its current ratio as well. Take from that what you will.

 

[67 Stang Convertible]

Wow, I can see who wears Red underwear and who wears Blue underwear ?

Whenever money is involved it always seems to lead to unsavory behavior. I generally wonder if the Union Bosses truly have the workers best interest at heart or is this just another play for profits? So, we get to know how much the CEO's make; what about the Union's Bosses? Are the Union's finances readily available? Do they make money outside of their salaries? I'm pretty sure Jimmy Hoffa did ok, had a few side hustles!!!! I just hope these hardworking laborers are not being lied to and robbed by the people they are trusting. Seems like their demands are on the "radical" side.

Not to mention, we will be competing (even more so) soon with China in our market and their companies are essentially Gov't subsidized. It would be nice to decouple our economy with China; that Gov't just doesn't seem to play by the "rules". But that is for a different thread/forum.

 

[thekat03]

Other tidbits: FYE'22 net add to cash - $5 billion. Current cash balance (excluding short term investments) - $25 billion. Company is liquid based on its current ratio as well. Take from that what you will.

At least Ford is trying to come to an agreement with the UAW, and is closer to an agreement than GM or Stellantis. I think Ford is going to be around a lot longer than Musk says, but it will be interesting to see if Tesla employees make future attempts to unionize based on how the negotiations for the big 3 go.

 

[kennethjk]

Wow, I can see who wears Red underwear and who wears Blue underwear ?

Whenever money is involved it always seems to lead to unsavory behavior. I generally wonder if the Union Bosses truly have the workers best interest at heart or is this just another play for profits? So, we get to know how much the CEO's make; what about the Union's Bosses? Are the Union's finances readily available? Do they make money outside of their salaries? I'm pretty sure Jimmy Hoffa did ok, had a few side hustles!!!! I just hope these hardworking laborers are not being lied to and robbed by the people they are trusting. Seems like their demands are on the "radical" side.

Not to mention, we will be competing (even more so) soon with China in our market and their companies are essentially Gov't subsidized. It would be nice to decouple our economy with China; that Gov't just doesn't seem to play by the "rules". But that is for a different thread/forum.

you’re probably right that there are some union bosses that are unscrupulous just as there are business owners that are unscrupulous, money and too much money leads to corruption, not just one one side but every side, politicians etc.

those demands are grandstanding, negotiating tactics no different than I have seen from many business owners. Happens all the time, business as usual, unfortunate but reality

 

[tuminatr]

I didn't Know that, last I read was that 20% was offered over 4.5 years. I guess I have to catch up on my reading.

in any event, they won’t get 40% over 4 years and reduced work week.

Keep in mind in terms of wages working one less day is very expensive for the company. On the surface it's 20% higher wage per hour for the employees. But the bigger cost is in the loss of productivity and the work needs to be done so the company would need to hire additional employees.

 

[kennethjk]

The CEO of BMW total compensation is $11.4M. No strike at Spartanburg as far as I know.

And many German companies have union reps on their boards. I Believe the same with BMW.

I also believe Spartanburg is non union

 

[kennethjk]

Keep in mind in terms of wages working one less day is very expensive for the company. On the surface it's 20% higher wage per hour for the employees. But the bigger cost is in the loss of productivity and the work needs to be done so the company would need to hire additional employees.

Of course , that’s why I don’t think they will get a reduced work week.

BTW I had read that the German union representing auto workers requested a 4 day work week but have no idea where it went and how many hours in that 4 day week.

 

[kennethjk]

Farley's salary + bonus incentives = about $4.5M in 2022. Ford sold 4.2M vehicles in 2022. Just over a buck a car. Is that really a problem?

From the Detroit News

Bill Ford Jr.'s total compensation was $17.3 million in 2022, down from $18.7 million in 2021. In 2021, Farley received a base salary of $1.7 million, stock awards worth just over $16 million and an incentive of $3.7 million for a total of $21.5 million in direct compensation.

in 2022 Ford CEO Jim Farley's compensation reached a $20,996,146, according to the details filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission

 

[Mach1E]

From the Detroit News

Bill Ford Jr.'s total compensation was $17.3 million in 2022, down from $18.7 million in 2021. In 2021, Farley received a base salary of $1.7 million, stock awards worth just over $16 million and an incentive of $3.7 million for a total of $21.5 million in direct compensation.

in 2022 Ford CEO Jim Farley's compensation reached a $20,996,146, according to the details filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission

Lol, seems like he’s underpaid.

Musk has averaged $245 million per year the last 3 years.

Rivian CEO- $145 million/yr

Lucid CEO- $189 million/yr

https://www.barrons.com/amp/articles/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-lucid-pay-39033fbc
Apparently running the larger company equals much lower pay?

 

[kennethjk]

Lol, seems like he’s underpaid.

Musk has averaged $245 million per year the last 3 years.

Rivian CEO- $145 million/yr

Lucid CEO- $189 million/yr

https://www.barrons.com/amp/articles/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-lucid-pay-39033fbc
Apparently running the larger company equals much lower pay?

Which means those guys are widely overpaid

Sponsored