Finally Got My Flow-Through Floor Console!

[ChrisO]

The BEV market for Ford looks pretty good to me.:
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/mach-e-just-outsold-the-gas-mustang-2-to-1.49554/

The problem is they can't yet sell them at a profit.

I hate to say it but it doesn’t matter what we think the market is. What matters is what Ford thinks and recently the CEO said he expects a far smaller EV demand in the future.

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[Kamuelaflyer]

I hate to say it but it doesn’t matter what we think the market is. What matters is what Ford thinks and recently the CEO said he expects a far smaller EV demand in the future.

BTW my guess that the current administration caused the surge in demand by ending the incentives. Most likely the demand will taper down pretty quickly from here.

Farley’s comments call into question Ford’s commitment to BEVs and to this car. He knows people listen to his comments and others are paid to analyze them. It doesn’t give me a warm fuzzy about Ford’s EV future.

 

[buzznwood]

Farley’s comments call into question Ford’s commitment to BEVs and to this car. He knows people listen to his comments and others are paid to analyze them. It doesn’t give me a warm fuzzy about Ford’s EV future.

Just enjoy your mach-e as it is run it into the ground then when it finally comes time to replace with another BEV just be prepared to look elsewhere as Ford is currently doing a typical Ford and walking away from this market segment as the chances of anything competitive EV wise for gen2 mach-e at present is slim to none.

Ford has moved the BEV eggs from so many baskets most are now broken, it is all about CE1 now but that is targeting low cost BEVs which is fine as there does need to be cheap BEV options but as the bases of a replacement for the mach-e it will be DOA based on where the competition is heading in this segment.

There is of course an upside in that Ford has a history of the plan is the plan until it is suddenly not the plan so it could all change tomorrow if they get some adults in charge of the company and reboot the the product lineup.

 

[markboris]

I think you can blame it on the US market, or at least at what the US manufacturers think the market is. it might seem like a simple thing to just add an option, but every variation can be very expensive to put into the flow. And so the manufacturer has to believe that they would actually make money on them.

What they rather do is target the “main market”, this the reason you can’t get the same cars in US vs the EU Vs China.

I don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet Ford makes more profit on a Lincoln SUV than they do the Ford variant since it it basically the same vehicle built at the same time on the same assembly line. I doubt all the Lincoln bits and pieces that are installed don't add up to the extra money they charge for that car.

 

[phil]

Farley’s comments call into question Ford’s commitment to BEVs and to this car. He knows people listen to his comments and others are paid to analyze them. It doesn’t give me a warm fuzzy about Ford’s EV future.

I don't think there's ever been any real commitment to electric. Ford just goes whichever way the wind blows.

They can build new headquarters, set up "skunk works", announce ther "Model T Moments". But if they don't see profits long term, they will exit any market so fast it will make your head spin. I suppose that is as it should be -- after all, Ford is a for-profit company and has a duty to its stockholders. But all of these apparent long-term commitments to electric cars are not to be taken very seriously.

 

[markboris]

The BEV market for Ford looks pretty good to me.:
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/mach-e-just-outsold-the-gas-mustang-2-to-1.49554/

The problem is they can't yet sell them at a profit.

Didn't it take Tesla like 10 years before they started turning a profit on their cars? I know Ford is loosing a buttload on their EV's but what about other manufacturers? Is Kia, Hyundai, BMW, Rivian, etc turning a profit on theirs?

 

[mkhuffman]

Didn't it take Tesla like 10 years before they started turning a profit on their cars? I know Ford is loosing a buttload on their EV's but what about other manufacturers? Is Kia, Hyundai, BMW, Rivian, etc turning a profit on theirs?

I think everyone is losing money.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Kia, Hyundai, BMW, Rivian, etc turning a profit on theirs?

Tesla, as you said, BYD and BMW (for now).

Kia is apparently approaching profitability with their EV lineup. Korean consortiums report their financials a bit differently than US corporations do, though.

GM is losing money on its EVs unless you ignore development and retooling costs. Revenue from EV sales is (or was anyway) in excess of the parts + labor costs, however.

Mercedes is losing their Benz on EV sales, no matter how you define it.

Volkswagen: hahahaha ha. Nope.

Stellantis: another nope.

Ford: Even setting aside the various development costs, the Model E division has a negative EBIT margin. I’m not sure what their current EBIT numbers are at Model E, but the first half of 2024 was stunningly bad -190% iirc.

BMW: It apparently is currently turning a profit in its EVs due to the way they’re offered. The EVs are pretty much a powertrain option of their ICE cars and can be built without extensive retooling. Their Neue Klasse (New Class) EV platform could very well change that. Oh, and they have premium price tags too.

By and large, the BEV platforms are the corporate equivalent of owning a boat for the rest of us; a hole in the ocean you toss money in.

 

[markboris]

Just enjoy your mach-e as it is run it into the ground then when it finally comes time to replace with another BEV just be prepared to look elsewhere as Ford is currently doing a typical Ford and walking away from this market segment as the chances of anything competitive EV wise for gen2 mach-e at present is slim to none.

Ford has moved the BEV eggs from so many baskets most are now broken, it is all about CE1 now but that is targeting low cost BEVs which is fine as there does need to be cheap BEV options but as the bases of a replacement for the mach-e it will be DOA based on where the competition is heading in this segment.

There is of course an upside in that Ford has a history of the plan is the plan until it is suddenly not the plan so it could all change tomorrow if they get some adults in charge of the company and reboot the the product lineup.

I have only had Ford's and Lincoln's for the 50+ years I've been driving (and one Honda Accord ) so you might say I'm a Ford guy. However, I would not have a problem buying another manufacturers EV as long as it is a sporty, small to medium SUV and has Apple CarPlay. Right now there are several that fit that criteria but overall I still think the Mach-E is the best. It is my favorite car I have ever owned and I would not be on my third if it wasn't. It is not the fastest, best handling (by a long shot), best riding, quietest car I have ever owned but it does them all decently well and I am looking forward to the next generation if there even is one.

I have mentioned I would love to see a Lincoln version or at least a more upscale Premium version but in the meantime I created my own upscale interior and really like how it turned out.

 

[markboris]

Tesla, as you said, BYD and BMW (for now).

Kia is apparently approaching profitability with their EV lineup. Korean consortiums report their financials a bit differently than US corporations do, though.

GM is losing money on its EVs unless you ignore development and retooling costs. Revenue from EV sales is (or was anyway) in excess of the parts + labor costs, however.

Mercedes is losing their Benz on EV sales, no matter how you define it.

Volkswagen: hahahaha ha. Nope.

Stellantis: another nope.

Ford: Even setting aside the various development costs, the Model E division has a negative EBIT margin. I’m not sure what their current EBIT numbers are at Model E, but the first half of 2024 was stunningly bad -190% iirc.

BMW: It apparently is currently turning a profit in its EVs due to the way they’re offered. The EVs are pretty much a powertrain option of their ICE cars and can be built without extensive retooling. Their Neue Klasse (New Class) EV platform could very well change that. Oh, and they have premium price tags too.

By and large, the BEV platforms are the corporate equivalent of owning a boat for the rest of us; a hole in the ocean you toss money in.

I sure hope this eventually all turns around because I don't want to buy another ICE vehicle and this first batch of EV's that most manufacturers have come out with are pretty good and they are only going to get better.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I sure hope this eventually all turns around because I don't want to buy another ICE vehicle and this first batch of EV's that most manufacturers have come out with are pretty good and they are only going to get better.

I never ever want another ICE vehicle. Even my wife has been eying upcoming EVs for her mainland car.

 

[buzznwood]

I have only had Ford's and Lincoln's for the 50+ years I've been driving (and one Honda Accord ) so you might say I'm a Ford guy. However, I would not have a problem buying another manufacturers EV as long as it is a sporty, small to medium SUV and has Apple CarPlay. Right now there are several that fit that criteria but overall I still think the Mach-E is the best. It is my favorite car I have ever owned and I would not be on my third if it wasn't. It is not the fastest, best handling (by a long shot), best riding, quietest car I have ever owned but it does them all decently well and I am looking forward to the next generation if there even is one.

I have mentioned I would love to see a Lincoln version or at least a more upscale Premium version but in the meantime I am creating my own upscale interior and really like how it turned out.

I have a soft spot for Fords mainly due to when they put the effort in the end result is very good, however for that to happen you need the people running the project knowing how to navigate the upper management minefields and circumvent the bean counters.

That soft spot however only goes so far and is dependent on expectations, my Focus-RS was chopped in for the mach-e as it ultimately fell far below what was expected for a modern day awd RS. While with the mach-e I give a pass on a lot things as it really is just a new dress that was placed over dated under garments, gen 2 is where Ford could haven taken the lessons learned and taken it to next level fixing all the short comings.

The problem is the way the competition is heading in the mach-e segment is the complete opposite to Fords current BEV direction, which is a shame. Still things can always change so who knows maybe a gen 2 fast charging 800v 400mile range mach-e with a true performance derivative will see the light day in the far future, but as things stand now that looks very unlikely.

 

[JoeyD]

I have only had Ford's and Lincoln's for the 50+ years I've been driving (and one Honda Accord ) so you might say I'm a Ford guy. However, I would not have a problem buying another manufacturers EV as long as it is a sporty, small to medium SUV and has Apple CarPlay. Right now there are several that fit that criteria but overall I still think the Mach-E is the best. It is my favorite car I have ever owned and I would not be on my third if it wasn't. It is not the fastest, best handling (by a long shot), best riding, quietest car I have ever owned but it does them all decently well and I am looking forward to the next generation if there even is one.

I have mentioned I would love to see a Lincoln version or at least a more upscale Premium version but in the meantime I created my own upscale interior and really like how it turned out.

I've also mainly have had Ford's, Lincoln's and one Tacoma which I still have. The Mach-E is my favorite car ever. My wife drives it sometimes but it's mainly my car because I have a much longer drive to work than she does. I want to replace the Tacoma with a small EV truck but there nothing out that fits the bill for me. Has to small to mid size like Maverick/Ranger, have CarPlay, four doors and hopefully not over $50K. Maybe someday there will be a vehicle like this.

 

[IgorKl]

I've also mainly have had Ford's, Lincoln's and one Tacoma which I still have. The Mach-E is my favorite car ever. My wife drives it sometimes but it's mainly my car because I have a much longer drive to work than she does. I want to replace the Tacoma with a small EV truck but there nothing out that fits the bill for me. Has to small to mid size like Maverick/Ranger, have CarPlay, four doors and hopefully not over $50K. Maybe someday there will be a vehicle like this.

if you are OK with UTE than new incoming 2027 new Ford EV may feet your needs. i expect something like EV "El Camino" model.

 

[JoeyD]

if you are OK with UTE than new incoming 2027 new Ford EV may feet your needs. i expect something like EV "El Camino" model.

I’d be ok with that. Got very close to getting a Maverick Hybrid but I really want an EV so going to wait and see what Ford comes out with.

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