Ford Model e Dealership

[X1Nightmare]

I'm honestly curious how my dealership is going to handle the Model E transition. I am our dealers EV tech, having in-depth experience with both Tesla and Ford EVs now. We have 3 Ford dealers across our group, but the location I work at is the only one signing up for the plan due to the high cost/lack of experience amongst techs.

Im very interested to see how this all ends up playing out. Also just came across this thread so sorry to just jump in ?

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[bbulkow]

I love the people who posted saying they will hold FORD responsible if a particular dealer will no longer service the car and "make" FORD buy the car back.

You chose to buy a car from a company that has dealers and uses 3rd party dealers to provide service - with no in-house service capabilities. You had a choice, there's another ev company that directly services their product.

If you don't like your repair circumstances as they evolve, you have the right to sell the car. It's a free country.

 

[Billyk24]

I’m buying my MME at a dealer in another state, as none of the locals had one available, OR they had a $10-15k ADM. I was fortunate enough to be able to take over an order at MSRP.
I’m interested to see how getting service goes.

As far as the question around no local dealers being certified, I have a feeling that Ford is setting up a solution.
I’m seeing more and more about Ford arranging to pick up your car for you, service it, and bring it back to you.
A few months ago, I suggested that Ford should setup factory owned, regional EV service centers.
A pick-up and drop-off model would work well with that model.
Maybe Ford is looking at setting up factory owned EV service centers. If not, they should.

Ford would license rather than spent millions upfront for brick and lumbar.

 

[PupSideDown]

L2 chargers are cheap, and easy

L3 are expensive.... require 3-phase power, and enough 'sales' to pay off whoever makes the (big) investment up front. Just ONE station, running at 150kw, will cost close to $750k at a minimum for hardware and dedicated transformer, plus operational costs with high load demand can make the minimum monthly energy bills un-profitable unless the local utility has an 'EV-specific' rate-class to reduce 'demand charge' which is usually assessed with big loads. L3 chargers are NOT a big money maker unless they get steady use.

Though cheap and easy, L2 chargers are essentially useless for long distance travelers who need a quick charge. They are fine for overnight stays in a hotel. Furthermore, L2 chargers don't meet the goals of the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) plan. Your state, NM, has been granted $38 million to help subsidize DCFC (L3) installations.

https://www.currentargus.com/story/...ds-for-electric-vehicle-chargers/69504307007/

The NM DOT website has a detailed plan for implementing DCFC installation statewide, using these funds.

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/nevi/ev_deployment_plans/nm_nevi_plan.pdf

It seems clear that the plan encourages stakeholders (including a range of businesses, ie. car dealerships), to participate in the project, and will provide funds to pay for DCFC installation.

The plan also includes public utilities in the implementation process to ensure grid infrastructure is adequate, and rate charges are realistic for consumers. All 50 states have submitted plans to the feds, as required, if they want the funding. All the plans are readily available to the public on state DOT websites. Public comment and participation is encouraged. If I owned a business on a proposed DCFC installation route, I would be actively seeking access to the funding to pay for DCFC installation in my public parking lot. As an EV owner, who wants to see rapid expansion of DCFC to support long distance travel, I have signed on as a stakeholder for the NEVI plan in KY so I am included in notices for public meetings, etc. The NEVI managers for KY send me regular email updates. Anyone can do this in their state.

I may be misunderstanding your responses, but it seems that you (mistakenly) think I am advocating for dealers to just make a large investment 'out of pocket'. I am suggesting that dealers take a look at the NEVI plan for their state, look at the proposed DCFC installation maps, communicate with the NEVI managers in their state, and, if eligible, apply for cash funding for DCFC installation. Who doesn't like cash subsidies for business expansion?

 

[dtbaker61]

Though cheap and easy, L2 chargers are essentially useless for long distance travelers who need a quick charge. They are fine for overnight stays in a hotel. Furthermore, L2 chargers don't meet the goals of the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) plan. Your state, NM, has been granted $38 million to help subsidize DCFC (L3) installations.

https://www.currentargus.com/story/...ds-for-electric-vehicle-chargers/69504307007/

The NM DOT website has a detailed plan for implementing DCFC installation statewide, using these funds.

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/nevi/ev_deployment_plans/nm_nevi_plan.pdf

It seems clear that the plan encourages stakeholders (including a range of businesses, ie. car dealerships), to participate in the project, and will provide funds to pay for DCFC installation.

The plan also includes public utilities in the implementation process to ensure grid infrastructure is adequate, and rate charges are realistic for consumers. All 50 states have submitted plans to the feds, as required, if they want the funding. All the plans are readily available to the public on state DOT websites. Public comment and participation is encouraged. If I owned a business on a proposed DCFC installation route, I would be actively seeking access to the funding to pay for DCFC installation in my public parking lot. As an EV owner, who wants to see rapid expansion of DCFC to support long distance travel, I have signed on as a stakeholder for the NEVI plan in KY so I am included in notices for public meetings, etc. The NEVI managers for KY send me regular email updates. Anyone can do this in their state.

I may be misunderstanding your responses, but it seems that you (mistakenly) think I am advocating for dealers to just make a large investment 'out of pocket'. I am suggesting that dealers take a look at the NEVI plan for their state, look at the proposed DCFC installation maps, communicate with the NEVI managers in their state, and, if eligible, apply for cash funding for DCFC installation. Who doesn't like cash subsidies for business expansion?

In New Mexico the minimum plan for a NEVI grant requires four handles at 150 KW each.... 600kw load. And on an interstate, and the owner does have to pay for the initial install out of pocket and only gets grant money if it meets all the requirements afterward

Getting the Grant covers some of the initial cost, but the revenue possible in a rural locations would never cover the operational cost of the minimum monthly bill because the utilities assess the fee regardless of how much electricity you sell based on the maximum load you could pull .

The n e v i Grant is designed for Highway side on interstates, but not practical on other major roads in low density areas which are prevalent in my neck of the woods. We want to install level 3, but it is a real challenge to find a spot that has three phase power, enough traffic going by to get enough charges to make it a profitable venture. And at this time a major challenge in the smaller utilities not having a EV specific rate class, or the ability to deal with big loads coming on and off their system very well. And work around Peak and off peak restrictions with limited line capacity.

My point is that level 3 charges are needed but forcing a Ford dealership into ownership of one may not be a good business plan since it may or may not turn out to be a profitable investment and it is certainly a large Capital expense up front since a one handle charge station is not likely to comply with any n e v i Grant requirement

 

[PupSideDown]

In New Mexico the minimum plan for a NEVI grant requires four handles at 150 KW each.... 600kw load. And on an interstate, and the owner does have to pay for the initial install out of pocket and only gets grant money if it meets all the requirements afterward

Getting the Grant covers some of the initial cost, but the revenue possible in a rural locations would never cover the operational cost of the minimum monthly bill because the utilities assess the fee regardless of how much electricity you sell based on the maximum load you could pull .

The n e v i Grant is designed for Highway side on interstates, but not practical on other major roads in low density areas which are prevalent in my neck of the woods. We want to install level 3, but it is a real challenge to find a spot that has three phase power, enough traffic going by to get enough charges to make it a profitable venture. And at this time a major challenge in the smaller utilities not having a EV specific rate class, or the ability to deal with big loads coming on and off their system very well. And work around Peak and off peak restrictions with limited line capacity.

My point is that level 3 charges are needed but forcing a Ford dealership into ownership of one may not be a good business plan since it may or may not turn out to be a profitable investment and it is certainly a large Capital expense up front since a one handle charge station is not likely to comply with any n e v i Grant requirement

I assume the NM plan you refer to in your first paragraph is based on traffic density, as most plans use this metric to determine number of handles per station. Compensation after installation is also pretty SOP, and is not a factor which deters most businesses from making sensible investments. If it isn't in their interest, they don't have to participate. Ford isn't 'forcing' them to participate. If they decide supporting EV sales isn't up their alley, they won't handle EV sales. Dealerships in bigger markets in NM can take up the slack.

Rural areas in KY, particularly the Appalachian region, which has staggering poverty rates, sparse population, and abysmal infrastructure, are also challenging. Not insurmountable, but certainly challenging. Vast portions of the Midwest and Plains regions in the US are also sparsely populated and have limited/near non-existent infrastructure. The NEVI funding can help to ensure major travel corridors have adequate EV charging options, in the short term. In the longer term, as more consumers purchase EVs, the expectation that DCFC options proliferate, even in the hinterlands, will prevail.

Utility providers, depending on whether they are investor owned, public/municipal, or electric co-op, vary significantly in their support for such things as home-owner solar power, EV infrastructure, renewable energy build out, etc. These entities can be either full partners, or fierce opponents, depending on whether they are serving the public or lining the pockets of shareholders. I think it should be dawning on most consumers that the price for fossil fuels, like atmospheric CO2, may fluctuate seasonally, but the overall trend is, inexorably, up, up, up. Increasing renewable energy sources, investment in grid infrastructure, and widespread adoption of EVs, are all beneficial goals. Businesses tend to follow consumers.

 

[dtbaker61]

On the hand, if the ford stations come on line at the same time as all the NEVI stations in a few years , it might make the Ford chargers irrelevant which means it would be a waste of money.

so , bottom line, I think Ford needs to rethink their strategy

exactly.....
a small change in Policy would make it easier; for instance, if Ford changed to ' In addition to at least one customer accessable L2 EVSE and at least one NEMA 240v outlet for demonstration purposes, thou shall install at least one 150kw charge station on Dealership property which is public accessible 24/7 UNLESS there is an existing L3 charge station within 5, or maybe 25, miles of the Dealership. Furthermore, the L3 charge station MAY be owned & operated by a third party.

Because L3 charge stations are so expensive to install (and operate), I don't think it's sustainable to rely on Grants or bully a Dealership into making a poor business decision to install an expensive piece of equipment. The decision to install a L3 charger should stand on it's own after careful analysis of cost, projecting revenue, and take into consideration any pre-existing nearby L3 stations which would affect the revenue needed to pay off the investment.

 

[RickMachE]

My dealership's GM told me back in July he was considering putting in level 3 chargers (it didn't elaborate on whether it was to become a Model E dealer or not.

I cautioned him. While he borders the interstate, there's no exit there. To get to the dealership from the interstate is not straightforward, and is miles of driving. And there is an Electrify America location 11 miles away that is right off the interstate. In short, I don't see the business case for it.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I may be misunderstanding your responses, but it seems that you (mistakenly) think I am advocating for dealers to just make a large investment 'out of pocket'.

In New Mexico the minimum plan for a NEVI grant requires four handles at 150 KW each.... 600kw load. And on an interstate, and the owner does have to pay for the initial install out of pocket and only gets grant money if it meets all the requirements afterward

What Dan said. The NEVI plan out here also requires 4 handles as those are the parameters set forth in the enabling legislation and rules. Running 3-phase, high-voltage power to the actual charging location can be prohibitively expensive or a major cost consideration. The ROI on such a major undertaking is also a consideration. There's no simple solution to this.

Rural areas in KY, particularly the Appalachian region, which has staggering poverty rates, sparse population, and abysmal infrastructure, are also challenging. Not insurmountable, but certainly challenging. Vast portions of the Midwest and Plains regions in the US are also sparsely populated and have limited/near non-existent infrastructure. The NEVI funding can help to ensure major travel corridors have adequate EV charging options, in the short term. In the longer term, as more consumers purchase EVs, the expectation that DCFC options proliferate, even in the hinterlands, will prevail.

The Hawaii plan might actually be a bit of a template for some very rural areas. The two areas of concern here are Lanai Island and Hawaii island. In the case of Lanai, a small island with a small population (relatively speaking), installing DCFC would overtax the island's electrical system (owned by Larry Ellison). Due to the limited roads and small population, a bank of L2 was proposed and a waiver was sought. There is also a corridor on Hawaii island that requires a charging station under the rules. It's a bit west(ish) of the entrance to the Pohakuloa Training area. 3 phase power is not a possibility. Not expensive, it's simply not possible. Instead, a bank of L2 chargers was proposed and another waiver was sought. All the waivers were granted. The administration shows a willingness to work with the appropriate state agencies to get solutions appropriate to the area.

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