Ford Range Increase Coming?

[trutolife27]

That’s fair. I would say though that just because Ford only sells SUVs doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have to compete on specs with cars. It’ll still lose sales of them if sedans are considerably better, especially when EV sedans frequently get better specs. Look how many potential customers even in this forum were considering being lured away by the polestar. Not even a similar vehicle to the MME

there is a trade-off. better specs? a truck can haul more than a car can. Specs? It comes down to what you can use the vehicle for. Really an f-150 does everything a car can do and that is why the sales for 4 door trucks are going through the roof.

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[trutolife27]

Not true. I own both. Yes, the driving controls are similar, which is a good thing. The Y has far more space, more ground clearance, looks like an SUV compared to the 3 which looks like a car. The Y is more comfortable and quieter, the 3 is more a low slung sports coupe. If I want to drive on the beach and haul a couple of surf boards and a ton of kiteboarding equipment, I take the Y. If we want to tear up some twisty roads and hit the winerys we take the 3.

Why am I looking at the Mach-e? Because just maybe it can do both and look better doing it. We'll see.

thank you point proven.

 

[dbsb3233]

That’s fair. I would say though that just because Ford only sells SUVs doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have to compete on specs with cars. It’ll still lose sales of them if sedans are considerably better, especially when EV sedans frequently get better specs. Look how many potential customers even in this forum were considering being lured away by the polestar. Not even a similar vehicle to the MME

Oh sure. Whether comparing to same class, or other classes, they still have plenty of incentive to compete and offer the best specs they can. If they don't (and if it's possible), someone else will.

The market will land where it lands. Meaning, consumers make value decisions on all aspect of the vehicle, and choose from there. Some may be fine with 270 mile range in the AWD ER MME vs 350 for a Model 3, because they value all the differences. Others won't and they'll choose the M3. The market will determine the winners and losers, as it always does.

The key for manufacturers is reading market demand and finding the spots in it where they can offer good value.

 

[1pt21Gigawatts]

Oh sure. Whether comparing to same class, or other classes, they still have plenty of incentive to compete and offer the best specs they can. If they don't (and if it's possible), someone else will.

The market will land where it lands. Meaning, consumers make value decisions on all aspect of the vehicle, and choose from there. Some may be fine with 270 mile range in the AWD ER MME vs 350 for a Model 3, because they value all the differences. Others won't and they'll choose the M3. The market will determine the winners and losers, as it always does.

The key for manufacturers is reading market demand and finding the spots in it where they can offer good value.

Yeah, I think the scary part of all this is that I would guess that electric cars are going to mean that sedans are coming back, which puts ford in a weird spot. There’s never going to be a world in electrification where sedans are not more efficient. The form factor is inherently more aerodynamic.

If we end up getting batteries that have such high energy density that makes it irrelevant, I can maybe understand it where SUVs are dominant, But for a lot of fleet applications and in a world fighting climate change and that doesn’t have an overabundance of electricity, the efficiency of the sedans are going to be important both for range and overall electricity consumption, meaning they have a real place. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ford ends up having to revert and make a sedan EV at some point.

 

[1pt21Gigawatts]

@trutolife27 I found that write up by Alex on autos on the model three real world range to be interesting. For reference, he writes the model Y at 225 real-world miles for the recent battery increases by Panasonic as well. Based off of the Norway video we know that the mustang gets much more than that.

 

[MailGuy]

Yep. home charging is paramount. A relatively small% of people are going to buy a BEV without cheap and easy home charging.

And I'd go one step further and even say that supercharger next to the apartment building paradigm isn't likely to coax a ton of people to BEVs either, because (a) it's not cheap, and (b) it requires a "babysit" charge session rather than a "park it & forget it" charge session. Having to play musical chairs to get a spot at that superchargers will get really old really fast. That involves having to run out and move the car.

When you get home (house or apartment), there needs to be cheap, secure, guaranteed L2 charging for it to be widely adopted. So you park ONCE when you get home, plug in, and forget it until you unplug and leave the next day.

Work chargers may be a viable option for some too. Instead of charging overnight, you plug in to L2 when you get to work, and unplug 8 hours later when you leave.

Spot on with all points.

 

[timbop]

Agreed. I started a thread a while back praising this forum for being far more enlightened than the Tesla forums. While there are still shining lights of reason here, the overall feel of this forum is now more toxic and "fan-boyish" than the Tesla forums. Any mention that Tesla might have done something right or that there might be a problem with some part of the Mach-e is met with scorn and derision. While some reprehensible posts--say posts that demean and objectify women--are left un-challenged.

I disagree. It's one thing to make valid points during civil discourse, it's quite another to stubbornly keep repeating the same thing over and over again long after its relevance or accuracy have been addressed. In thread after thread. ad nauseam.

I am perfectly willing to understand someone else's viewpoint, provided they give me the same courtesy. For example, I understand why a particular member believes that there is no place in the market for anything other than EV's based in his particular experience. He already undertook the journey from ICE to hybrid to EV, and is now perfectly happy accepting the compromises of long range travel with an EV. Yet he is unwilling to grant the same journey to anyone else, nor to accept that other's different choices are just as valid. In the end he may be right, but I'd like the opportunity to learn that for myself without my intelligence or judgement being questioned.

In that context I recognize the futility of expressing a different viewpoint with him, and simply refuse to waste time and effort engaging in a one-way conversation. So, I don't. In the end I feel less aggravation and stress, and the result is exactly the same.

 

[agoldman]

What would totally cure range anxiety for me would be lines of chargers at gas stations along most routes. Not malls, not parking lots, not car dealers, GAS STATIONS! Stop as you normally would for gas, burn 15 minutes and go. What I wonder about is when there are more and more electric cars on the road in the coming years, will it be as easy to drive up to an available charger, or will there always be a wait for a free one. As it stands, people use the ones at garages and malls etc, as parking spaces and never leave. The gas station model would help with that problem somewhat.

 

[trutolife27]

Yeah, I think the scary part of all this is that I would guess that electric cars are going to mean that sedans are coming back, which puts ford in a weird spot. There’s never going to be a world in electrification where sedans are not more efficient. The form factor is inherently more aerodynamic.

If we end up getting batteries that have such high energy density that makes it irrelevant, I can maybe understand it where SUVs are dominant, But for a lot of fleet applications and in a world fighting climate change and that doesn’t have an overabundance of electricity, the efficiency of the sedans are going to be important both for range and overall electricity consumption, meaning they have a real place. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ford ends up having to revert and make a sedan EV at some point.

I know the public can only see what is in front of them. Ford never totally got out of car manufacturing. The problem is the profit margins on cars and the general public is not buying them.
Trucks and SUV sales are going nuts right now.
A truck might not be what you want, or a suv. that is true. But the market as a "WHOLE" is not for buying a car.
Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, and on and on are in deep trouble now they leaned on the car market for too long and the window is not there. Now if the demand for cars comes back and it shows there is a profit in it. Then yes they will bring them back. Already in talks to bring two new cars into the fold by 2025.

 

[kdryden99]

What would totally cure range anxiety for me would be lines of chargers at gas stations along most routes. Not malls, not parking lots, not car dealers, GAS STATIONS! Stop as you normally would for gas, burn 15 minutes and go. What I wonder about is when there are more and more electric cars on the road in the coming years, will it be as easy to drive up to an available charger, or will there always be a wait for a free one. As it stands, people use the ones at garages and malls etc, as parking spaces and never leave. The gas station model would help with that problem somewhat.

Here in Canada 2 major Gas Stations companies started doing this, Petro Canada and Couche-Tard. It makes sense for them especially those that have convenient stores that sell food attached. They will make more profit selling their food than they do selling gas.

 

[kdryden99]

I know the public can only see what is in front of them. Ford never totally got out of car manufacturing. The problem is the profit margins on cars and the general public is not buying them.
Trucks and SUV sales are going nuts right now.
A truck might not be what you want, or a suv. that is true. But the market as a "WHOLE" is not for buying a car.
Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, and on and on are in deep trouble now they leaned on the car market for too long and the window is not there. Now if the demand for cars comes back and it shows there is a profit in it. Then yes they will bring them back. Already in talks to bring two new cars into the fold by 2025.

Nissan and Toyota already started moving away from cars that's why they have all those crossovers, they just haven't reduced the lineup yet but it's coming

 

[JellyBelly]

What would totally cure range anxiety for me would be lines of chargers at gas stations along most routes. Not malls, not parking lots, not car dealers, GAS STATIONS! Stop as you normally would for gas, burn 15 minutes and go. What I wonder about is when there are more and more electric cars on the road in the coming years, will it be as easy to drive up to an available charger, or will there always be a wait for a free one. As it stands, people use the ones at garages and malls etc, as parking spaces and never leave. The gas station model would help with that problem somewhat.

Yup - that would make sense the most - gas stations can have a charger or two especially at highway exits. And they get to participate as well in non gasoline based transportation

 

[trutolife27]

What would totally cure range anxiety for me would be lines of chargers at gas stations along most routes. Not malls, not parking lots, not car dealers, GAS STATIONS! Stop as you normally would for gas, burn 15 minutes and go. What I wonder about is when there are more and more electric cars on the road in the coming years, will it be as easy to drive up to an available charger, or will there always be a wait for a free one. As it stands, people use the ones at garages and malls etc, as parking spaces and never leave. The gas station model would help with that problem somewhat.

One day that will happen. But with only 2 % of sales EV right now. It's not justified. Have to take the consumer part of the thinking out and thing about it as if you owned the company.

It has been brought up so many times in meetings about that same point. Think of the income chevy tesla ford anyone could have if they owned the charging stations and sold items. I need to go to speedway to get gas you need anything hun?

now it be I need to go to ford to charge you need some milk for that honey tonight. Ford buys the electric for a certain then marks it up and sells to us to charge. It's coming but we are not near that demand.

The other factor that is brought up is the more range we get in the EV the fewer people will charge on the road and charge at home. If you ever get to say 600-mile range in a EV then see the point.

Business is business and wants are not always needed at that time.

 

[mark360]

I know the public can only see what is in front of them. Ford never totally got out of car manufacturing. The problem is the profit margins on cars and the general public is not buying them.
Trucks and SUV sales are going nuts right now.
A truck might not be what you want, or a suv. that is true. But the market as a "WHOLE" is not for buying a car.
Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, and on and on are in deep trouble now they leaned on the car market for too long and the window is not there. Now if the demand for cars comes back and it shows there is a profit in it. Then yes they will bring them back. Already in talks to bring two new cars into the fold by 2025.

Yeah, and I've always been a voice of reason for Ford during this transition. They were allocating valuable production lines and resources to cars that don't really add value to peoples life anymore or to Ford's profitability. Smart for them to discontinue it. The free market dictates weather or not you are adding value where you need to be based off sales. Declining sales = bad. Declining sales across a car segment = consumer value shifts.

When we think back to the car days, we think back to when people needed fuel economy because at the pump prices were $3-$4 a gallon. Now, people are ok with 18-25MPG range in favor of a vehicle with more space.

The Bronco, Mustang, Mach E, F150, F150 hybrid, ALL adds very unique value to individuals and honestly is one of the most diverse product line ups. I think Ford has nailed it perfectly in each segment.

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