Ford Range Increase Coming?

[DBC]

I mean I have no desire to buy a Model Y over a Model 3 (if I was buying another Tesla), but I will say that now even with the price cut last month, Mach-E now feels overpriced again.

Seems very price competitive. The Mach E with two motors and extended range battery is $54,700 minus $7500 = $47, 200. The Model Y is $49,900. Time from 0-60 MPH is the same.

Now the Model Y does have more range. At these numbers it's not a big deal but let's say it's worth more than $2700, which from a strictly logical POV is a stretch given how many kWh you can buy for $2700. However, the autonomous driving package is $6400 less on the Mach E and, the big deciding issue for me, Ford actually knows how to build a vehicle whereas Tesla is still struggling to master the skills to do so.

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[Nak]

But since this thread was about an increase in the MME range beyond the currently know estimates, Tesla's recent range increases are entirely irrelevant.

I disagree. Tesla's range increases just prove that range can be improved on EVs without massive change to the car. If Tesla can do it, so can Ford. Technology moves forward, and since I'm sure Mach-e engineers are moving forward as well, I think we can assume that the Mach-e's range will improve. Whether the early models improve over current estimates is the only question remaining. My guess is that they will, at least slightly if not more.

It's too early to say Tesla has the advantage here, we need to see Mach-e's released into the wild to know what, if any, advantage the Tesla's will have. Side by side testing is the only way to know for sure.

 

[1pt21Gigawatts]

It seems like Ford already has the EPA numbers. Why are they not releasing them?

Did they come in lower than expected?

I’m kind of hoping they’re doing it strategically. That way they can adjust and leapfrog Tesla just by one or 2 miles for bragging rights. It is the mustang way, they have been dogfighting with Camaro for 50 years for incremental bragging rights. If anything it’s kind of appropriate, Tesla is Ford’s new Chevy.

 

[Nak]

Lawd everyone stop beating up Jolteon just because he’s saying uncomfortable things, nothing he’s saying is wrong. We are starting to straddle the line a little bit too close to becoming the fanatics, like what happened to some Tesla enthusiasts.

Agreed. I started a thread a while back praising this forum for being far more enlightened than the Tesla forums. While there are still shining lights of reason here, the overall feel of this forum is now more toxic and "fan-boyish" than the Tesla forums. Any mention that Tesla might have done something right or that there might be a problem with some part of the Mach-e is met with scorn and derision. While some reprehensible posts--say posts that demean and objectify women--are left un-challenged.

 

[darren]

@tru2life explained. The EPA number is still being work on. I will take his advice and not speculate too much. Ford has been showing us great things like the performance, and price.

 

[dbsb3233]

Home charging is key to success. Not only is it cheaper, you’re in control of 95%+ of your trips. In three years of BEV ownership, I can count on one hand the number of public charges I’ve done. And that brings up the next problem. BEV ownership is biased to homeowners. Here in my area there’s a trend, an apartment building goes up, then a supercharger hub pops into the middle of a big box or grocery store parking lot nearby.

Yep. home charging is paramount. A relatively small% of people are going to buy a BEV without cheap and easy home charging.

And I'd go one step further and even say that supercharger next to the apartment building paradigm isn't likely to coax a ton of people to BEVs either, because (a) it's not cheap, and (b) it requires a "babysit" charge session rather than a "park it & forget it" charge session. Having to play musical chairs to get a spot at that superchargers will get really old really fast. That involves having to run out and move the car.

When you get home (house or apartment), there needs to be cheap, secure, guaranteed L2 charging for it to be widely adopted. So you park ONCE when you get home, plug in, and forget it until you unplug and leave the next day.

Work chargers may be a viable option for some too. Instead of charging overnight, you plug in to L2 when you get to work, and unplug 8 hours later when you leave.

 

[1pt21Gigawatts]

Agreed. I started a thread a while back praising this forum for being far more enlightened than the Tesla forums. While there are still shining lights of reason here, the overall feel of this forum is now more toxic and "fan-boyish" than the Tesla forums. Any mention that Tesla might have done something right or that there might be a problem with some part of the Mach-e is met with scorn and derision. While some reprehensible posts--say posts that demean and objectify women--are left un-challenged.

Agreed, honestly I feel like making this more of a Ford electric vehicle site is probably more realistic, we have to remember this is just the first car. It’s the equivalent of Tesla doing the model S 85. There’s gonna be dozens of new versions and new vehicles coming out, it’s a decade-long battle between two companies not between a fourth generation car and Ford’s first real one.

 

[trutolife27]

Again I Don't know how to tell you this. Your not getting that range they are saying driving. Drive model 3 many times. never got anywhere close to 300 miles of range. There are other people on here who own a tesla also. The range of tesla puts on their website is misleading.

 

[dbsb3233]

Now the Model Y does have more range.

Remember too that the Model Y LR was originally announced with a preliminary range of 300 miles (same as the MME). It's subsequently been tweaked to 316, and now 326.

Doesn't necessarily mean the MME will too, but there's a pretty good case to think it'll see something similar. We haven't even gotten EPA yet, let alone a subsequent OTA adjustment.

 

[trutolife27]

Lawd everyone stop beating up Jolteon just because he’s saying uncomfortable things, nothing he’s saying is wrong. We are starting to straddle the line a little bit too close to becoming the fanatics, like what happened to some Tesla enthusiasts.

Vehicles don’t exclusively compete against their class either. Mustang competes against corvette all the time, for instance, despite not being comparable.

IMO the range needs to be 315+ in order to compete especially with the lesser charge rates. We know the 100kwh pack was chosen to give headroom on spec increases, they’ll have to use it. We have the advantage of being 335mi WLTP which is still more than the Y, but only ~10mi more now which is uncomfortably close. That being said I feel Tesla is overextending itself on range to compete. Same on the Model S plaid. They might end up hurting themselves by constantly trying to nose ahead rather than polishing their competencies. That big shiny façade of being the universal is too valuable to them right now, and it can’t last forever. No oem can ever be the best at everything for long.

For us, we’re lead users and we’re gonna take some lumps to be first. Hopefully range won’t be one of those, but the first Tesla owners took lots of lumps, and I don’t think we can expect to be anywhere near as poor of an experience as them due to Ford’s experience and the quality we’re hearing with JD Power from Trutolife. So long as it is 310+ I think that I’ll be personally happy, but honestly if we’re not close then mustang is going to lose sales or exclusively appeal to people that prefer the vehicle itself over its actual functionality.

I don’t think will have to make that choice though, we will have to see once the range numbers come out

nothing is wrong with comparing anything in the same class. Again the model 3 is a car and the model y is a crossover. What is really funny is why are Telsa fans even buying a model y when the model 3 is around 75% the same.

A truck is not a car and a van is not an SUV. Sorry, that is why there are segments that vehicles are put into.

 

[1pt21Gigawatts]

nothing is wrong with comparing anything in the same class. Again the model 3 is a car and the model y is a crossover. What is really funny is why are Telsa fans even buying a model y when the model 3 is around 75% the same.

A truck is not a car and a van is not an SUV. Sorry, that is why there are segments that vehicles are put into.

If you think that Ford has never lost a truck sale to an SUV, you’re dreaming. The whole reason they did bronco is because it’s cannibalizing SUV sales, that’s not the same segment either. Cross segment sales losses a real thing, and I know a ton of people that we’re going to buy forda that bought model threes instead. Now that Ford only buys SUVs, will it never lose a single sale to Toyota Camry because it doesn’t compete against sedans? They made escape look like a car for that exact reason.

 

[dbsb3233]

If you think that Ford has never lost a truck sale to an SUV, you’re dreaming. The whole reason they did bronco is because it’s cannibalizing SUV sales, that’s not the same segment either. Cross segment sales losses a real thing, and I know a ton of people that we’re going to buy forda that bought model threes instead. Now that Ford only buys SUVs, will it never lose a single sale to Toyota Camry because it doesn’t compete against sedans? They made escape look like a car for that exact reason.

I don't think anyone is saying people may not consider choosing a vehicle from among multiple vehicle classes. The point here emanated from a poster expecting them to have the same range/mileage, with no regard for one being significantly bigger than the other.

 

[1pt21Gigawatts]

I don't think anyone is saying people may not consider choosing a vehicle from among multiple vehicle classes. The point here emanated from a poster expecting them to have the same range/mileage, with no regard for one being significant bigger than the other.

That’s fair. I would say though that just because Ford only sells SUVs doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have to compete on specs with cars. It’ll still lose sales of them if sedans are considerably better, especially when EV sedans frequently get better specs. Look how many potential customers even in this forum were considering being lured away by the polestar. Not even a similar vehicle to the MME

 

[trutolife27]

If you think that Ford has never lost a truck sale to an SUV, you’re dreaming. The whole reason they did bronco is because it’s cannibalizing SUV sales, that’s not the same second either

Sales can be lost to anything that other people buy. even a motorcycle or a bike. The point is they are not in the same segment. They don't give out awards to all every single thing that goes down the road in one class. And that is not why they did the bronco, I promise you that.

I will say however that is why they waited so long for the ranger to come back to see if the sales were enough not to eat into the f-150 sales.

 

[Nak]

What is really funny is why are Telsa fans even buying a model y when the model 3 is around 75% the same.

Not true. I own both. Yes, the driving controls are similar, which is a good thing. The Y has far more space, more ground clearance, looks like an SUV compared to the 3 which looks like a car. The Y is more comfortable and quieter, the 3 is more a low slung sports coupe. If I want to drive on the beach and haul a couple of surf boards and a ton of kiteboarding equipment, I take the Y. If we want to tear up some twisty roads and hit the winerys we take the 3.

Why am I looking at the Mach-e? Because just maybe it can do both and look better doing it. We'll see.

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