IRS recategorizes Mach-E as SUV with $80,000 limit

[devmach-e]

Now I just need to figure out if this means I will get a $3750 tax credit, or the full $7500. I took delivery last week, so I purchased under the new IRA rules, but before the battery rules have gone in place (expected at end of March). Is the current understanding that I might qualify for the full $7500 tax credit because the battery rules aren't finalized yet? Or is it more likely that I will get $3750?

You'll get to claim the full $7500.

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[devmach-e]

I still don't like the exact number cutoffs. All the limits should be sliding scale so there isn't this incredible drop off for a couple dollars change in cost or income. If the car you want costs $50,001 or the SUV you want costs $80,001 then you lose $7,500? Or if a person makes $150,001 or a couple makes $300,001 you get 0 instead of $7,500? Doesn't make sense to me.

Yes, a sliding scale, or phaseout, would've been better. But that ship sailed on August 16th, 2022, and isn't likely to come back to port anytime in the next 2 years (or longer).

 

[timbop]

This forum has taught me that a prime motivator for people isn't just spending less of their money on something they want, it's knowing that they will spend less than, or at least no more than, other people buying the same thing.

Is it a $55K car, $60K car, $65K car? For lots of people, it doesn't matter all that much so long as everyone is stuck paying the same price.

Sure, but at the time they BOUGHT their car they paid the same as everyone else. Again, adults should have enough understanding of market forces to be able to deal with it. They may not like it emotionally, but to scream they got screwed and that Ford "owes them" is just immature. Perhaps its because Ford was trying to compensate everyone who seemed to miss out on the tax credit, but this CANNOT be the first time they've dealt with bad timing on fluctuating prices.

When I bought my first house my wife and I paid 10% interest; less than a year later rates had gone back down. My daughter bought her house just after the fed raised rates and they are paying more than someone did a week before they signed the paperwork. People who bought homes a year ago are likely underwater at this point unless they put a lot down. Those things happen and your intellect needs to be able to deal with it.

Obviously $200k for a family makes for a comfortable

The family limit is $300K; I mentioned $200k because that's the top bracket in the census report. $300K is gross income of $25,000 a month; I don't think missing out on $7500 is going to hurt anyone at that income level.

 

[awp0]

The family limit is $300K; I mentioned $200k because that's the top bracket in the census report. $300K is gross income of $25,000 a month; I don't think missing out on $7500 is going to hurt anyone at that income level.

Hurt anyone? No, but they'll look more closely at a Porsche Macan and several other competitive cars that compete nicely with EVs in this price range (without tax credit). If they didn't care about money at all, then I don't even think they'd be looking at the MME in the first place.

 

[DanoiZ]

Yes! If the ID4 is an SUV, so is the Model Y and Mach-E. Nice to see that the two best-selling US-made EVs will not be hamstrung by EV incentives.

 

[timbop]

Hurt anyone? No, but they'll look more closely at a Porsche Macan and several other competitive cars that compete nicely with EVs in this price range (without tax credit). If they didn't care about money at all, then I don't even think they'd be looking at the MME in the first place.

OK, so there's still no problem right? The initial assertion was that 50% of Mach-E buyers will be disqualified by the income limits. We can both agree that is an inflated number, right?

 

[67 Stang Convertible]

The family limit is $300K; I mentioned $200k because that's the top bracket in the census report. $300K is gross income of $25,000 a month; I don't think missing out on $7500 is going to hurt anyone at that income level.
[/QUOTE]
"hurt"? No but consider other options, Hell Yes!!! It goes under the same philosophy as one of the reasons TESLA is so successful. Everyone pays the same price. The last thing you want to hear is you paid more than the next guy or gal for any good or service. It's human nature.

Heck I purchased my Home charger 6 months before my MME arrived so I would qualify for the 30% Fed rebate that had not been renewed at the time.

 

[Caramel Mach-e-ato]

ADM cometh!!!! If you want a MME, find it NOW. Before the sales teams figure this out.

I pounced on mine tonight. Dealer still had the one I passed on 2 weeks ago. GTPE. Moved before the interest picked up and ford re-increased prices. Relatively nice deal only open for a short window

 

[timbop]

"hurt"? No but consider other options, Hell Yes!!! It goes under the same philosophy as one of the reasons TESLA is so successful. Everyone pays the same price. The last thing you want to hear is you paid more than the next guy or gal for any good or service. It's human nature.

Heck I purchased my Home charger 6 months before my MME arrived so I would qualify for the 30% Fed rebate that had not been renewed at the time.

The income limit on the EV tax credit applies to Ford, Tesla, ID.4, etc.. Again, the original claim I was responding to was that fully HALF of all Mach-E purchasers would be over the income limit and that they would count on the rebate to be able to afford the car. I was refuting that claim, using the census data to point out that no more than 5% to 7% of households exceed the limit and it seems very unlikely that small slice of the population accounts for HALF of Mach-E buyers.

That's all I was saying.

*** EDIT ***
As for this statement of yours:

It goes under the same philosophy as one of the reasons TESLA is so successful. Everyone pays the same price

I assume you are referring to dealer markups, but are you aware that Tesla changes prices every few months? In fact it was TESLA reducing prices that precipitated Ford's price cuts in the first place. Tesla reduced some models by $15k, which begs the question why you would consider what amounts to $15k corporate markup to be desirable?

 

[tdmeng]

Income limit for a single person is $150k. Which is probably great, unless you live in the Bay Area. Where rent starts at $2k and can quickly hit $4k/month (if you live in the city).

 

[67 Stang Convertible]

The income limit on the EV tax credit applies to Ford, Tesla, ID.4, etc.. Again, the original claim I was responding to was that fully HALF of all Mach-E purchasers would be over the income limit and that they would count on the rebate to be able to afford the car. I was refuting that claim, using the census data to point out that no more than 5% to 7% of households exceed the limit and it seems very unlikely that small slice of the population accounts for HALF of Mach-E buyers.

That's all I was saying.

*** EDIT ***
As for this statement of yours:

I assume you are referring to dealer markups, but are you aware that Tesla changes prices every few months? In fact it was TESLA reducing prices that precipitated Ford's price cuts in the first place. Tesla reduced some models by $15k, which begs the question why you would consider what amounts to $15k corporate markup to be desirable?

Now, I agree with you on the 2nd part. With TESLA swings in price yes, but was just using one price everyone pays as an example.

timbop, i think this is not the 1st time we disagree on a topic....intresting. I bet we'd have some fun having a drink and discussing the world.....

 

[devmach-e]

Income limit for a single person is $150k. Which is probably great, unless you live in the Bay Area. Where rent starts at $2k and can quickly hit $4k/month (if you live in the city).

If you make $150K a year, you are hopefully taking home about 60% of that after taxes, retirement, etc. That's about $7.5K take home per month. $3K a month for rent leaves $4.5K for other things. If you were only making $100K (a mere pittance out here), then things would definitely be tighter.

 

[awp0]

OK, so there's still no problem right? The initial assertion was that 50% of Mach-E buyers will be disqualified by the income limits. We can both agree that is an inflated number, right?

Maybe? Neither of us knows what percentage of MME purchasers are in this income category and then which percentage of that group might no longer be interested due to being disqualified from the tax credit. The total percentage of households in an income level is neither here nor there. So who knows. I wouldn’t be surprised if 50% of the MME market earn over $150k/$300k but I expect you’re right that it’s less than 50%. More importantly, I think the initial assertion of 50% wasn’t meant to be precise, rather it was meant to point out that a material percentage (who knows, maybe 20%?) of the market is not longer interested. I think that’s probably true.

 

[timbop]

I bet we'd have some fun having a drink and discussing the world

Yup - we could work out all the world's problems over beers

 

[Mach1E]

Sure, but at the time they BOUGHT their car they paid the same as everyone else. Again, adults should have enough understanding of market forces to be able to deal with it. They may not like it emotionally, but to scream they got screwed and that Ford "owes them" is just immature. Perhaps its because Ford was trying to compensate everyone who seemed to miss out on the tax credit, but this CANNOT be the first time they've dealt with bad timing on fluctuating prices.

When I bought my first house my wife and I paid 10% interest; less than a year later rates had gone back down. My daughter bought her house just after the fed raised rates and they are paying more than someone did a week before they signed the paperwork. People who bought homes a year ago are likely underwater at this point unless they put a lot down. Those things happen and your intellect needs to be able to deal with it.


The family limit is $300K; I mentioned $200k because that's the top bracket in the census report. $300K is gross income of $25,000 a month; I don't think missing out on $7500 is going to hurt anyone at that income level.

This assumption is based on the common misconception that “rich people don’t care about money.”

Couldn’t be further from the truth. You don’t get, nor stay rich being wasteful with $$.

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