L-1 charging questions

[Elmst-e]

We moved from our house of 40 years to a wonderful retirement community this week. Our house had a 220 v 48 A wallbox that gave a consistent 9-10 amps to our er 22 ME. The car is now garaged in a 10 bay unit and I’ve installed the Ford charger that came with the car, using a 120 v outlet which runs the door opener. I’m only getting 1.2 kw out of the charger, which seems extremely slow. L1 at other places have given me 5-6 kw.
This isn’t particularly a bad speed for us as we do not have to drive very far to access anything and there are 3 DCFC very close if needed.
A couple of questions- is charging this slow in anyway bad for the hv battery. I don’t think I’m charging the lv battery, however I will drive enough through the week to hopefully keep it at a good level. This is the first time I’ve used the Ford charger so I do not know what it should be doing? Also, how long should I expect the charger to last?
Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

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[E90alex]

There is no way you ever got 5-6kW out of a Level 1. That’s impossible.

Level 1 by definition is 120V x 12A = 1440W = 1.44kW maximum. 1.2-1.3kW is typical for what FordPass will show on Level 1.

Slow charging doesn’t hurt the battery at all. Fast charging is what can accelerate battery wear. The LV battery is being charged whenever the HV battery is charging. So the slower charging is actually charging the LV battery more than a faster charge.

 

[RickMachE]

L1 is 120v charging. Nowhere have you gotten more, sorry. 5-6kW is level 2.

120 x 12amps = 1.4kW less loss = 1.2. That is what you get in the car, not out of the charger. 5kW / 240 = 20amps...

While charging with ANY charger you are charging the 12v battery...

The Ford Mobile Charger is prone to failure.

If you open the garage door while charging, you will likely pop the breaker exceeding the circuit's limit.

 

[AtomicInternet]

On the contrary, the longer charge time means your 12v is also getting charged for longer as well. You could argue the slower charger is BETTER for the 12v. I spent the first year of ownership at 120v L1 charging since I didn't (and still don't) drive enough to need 240v L2.

Agree with getting a 120v charger other than the Ford Mobile though, those are not long for this world. Fortunately, the 120v limited L1 chargers are all pretty cheap on Amazon.

This one has good reviews and a screen for $89. Keep the included Ford charger as a backup.
https://www.amazon.com/WINUSUAL-Portable-110-240V-Electric-Adjustable/dp/B0D7VLNPJS

 

[A-A-Ron]

The Ford Mobile Charger is prone to failure.

Just to note - this is a very loaded statement. Some people on here have been using theirs daily for years while others have had them die within days. Nothing wrong with using yours until it dies, just be away that the reliability of the Ford mobile charger is hit or miss.

 

[RickMachE]

Just to note - this is a very loaded statement. Some people on here have been using theirs daily for years while others have had them die within days. Nothing wrong with using yours until it dies, just be away that the reliability of the Ford mobile charger is hit or miss.

Loaded? It's factual. Buy a ChargePoint, or Grizzl-E, or any other name brand charger. The % of failures is very tiny. Ford's Mobile Charger, and GM's, and ... are all "prone to failure", meaning a huge number of them fail.

definition - "likely to or liable to suffer from, do, or experience something"

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

We moved from our house of 40 years to a wonderful retirement community this week. Our house had a 220 v 48 A wallbox that gave a consistent 9-10 amps to our er 22 ME. The car is now garaged in a 10 bay unit and I’ve installed the Ford charger that came with the car, using a 120 v outlet which runs the door opener. I’m only getting 1.2 kw out of the charger, which seems extremely slow. L1 at other places have given me 5-6 kw.
This isn’t particularly a bad speed for us as we do not have to drive very far to access anything and there are 3 DCFC very close if needed.
A couple of questions- is charging this slow in anyway bad for the hv battery. I don’t think I’m charging the lv battery, however I will drive enough through the week to hopefully keep it at a good level. This is the first time I’ve used the Ford charger so I do not know what it should be doing? Also, how long should I expect the charger to last?
Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I think you have a misunderstanding of the various levels of EV charging on alternating current.

1. Level 1
   1. 120 volts, up to 16 amps, which is 1.92 kW maximum allowed charge rate
   2. A standard outlet can only provide 12 amps, which gives as noted earlier 1.44 kW
   3. Various efficiency losses means you’ll get about 80% of the theoretical charge rate
2. Level 2
   1. 240 volts, up to 80 amps, which is 19.2 kW maximum allowed charge rate
   2. You had a 48 A wallbox on 240 volts, but the wallbox was probably limited by code to 40 amps. That’s 240 * 40 = 9.6 kW, but if it was truly 48 amps, that would be 11.5 kW, you were seeing a charge rate in that range (in kW, not amps as you stated—no big deal, a lot of people get the units incorrect)

There’s no danger to your batteries, high-voltage or low-voltage.

 

[Tampamike]

My experience with the Ford mobile charger - it will work fine for a while (on 220v) and then it will start overheating. It will still charge, albeit slower because it will cycle on and off. I used my first one for about two years exclusively. For about the last 6 months, maybe, it was giving the amber overheat light but it still charged. I finally got it replaced under warranty. My second one started exhibiting the overheat sooner but then I had a hard-wired unit installed and stopped using the mobile.

I would bet that on 110v, it would last quite a while and maybe not even overheat at all. If I were you, I’d just keep using the Ford mobile until or if it fails. Remember too that, even while it starts overheating, it still works, just not as well. With Amazon, you can always get another one if you need it, pretty quick.

 

[music_cities]

Just in case you care if it's a dedicated circuit you (or your favourite electrician) can probably double the voltage on that outlet in 15 minutes by swapping just the breaker and the receptacle. (No new wires.) Then, you could buy an L2 EVSE that allows you to set the maximum current to what those wires allow (typically 15amps), e.g. maybe a Grizzl-E. With that EVSE you'd charge 2.5 times as fast (15*240)/(12*120) = 2.5.

But then you'd have trouble opening your garage door, since it requires 120V. The garage door uses very little power, so you could buy a Jackery or something to power it. (I wish there were 240V garage door openers one could buy in North America.)

This is simple and (as far as I can tell, as your electrician) entirely safe and legal. Well, except that it seems there might be a legal requirement to have a 120V outlet in your garage in some jurisdictions.

If you intend to stay there for a while, I'd skip the receptacle and hardwire in the EVSE — a bit safer, and cheaper overall too since it's one less thing for the electrician to install.

 

[HuntingPudel]

Just in case you care if it's a dedicated circuit you (or your favourite electrician) can probably double the voltage on that outlet in 15 minutes by swapping just the breaker and the receptacle. (No new wires.) Then, you could buy an L2 EVSE that allows you to set the maximum current to what those wires allow (typically 15amps), e.g. maybe a Grizzl-E. With that EVSE you'd charge 2.5 times as fast (15*240)/(12*120) = 2.5.
<SNIP>

Just a note that this is neither safe nor to code in the US. The 5-15R outlet is designed to be safe at 120V~ and should have one live, one neutral, and one ground. Two live wires in the outlet would violate code.

 

[music_cities]

Just a note that this is neither safe nor to code in the US. The 5-15R outlet is designed to be safe at 120V~ and should have one live, one neutral, and one ground. Two live wires in the outlet would violate code.

You’d swap the 5-15R (120 V) for a 6-15R (240 V) which doesn’t require a neutral.

Better yet, hard-wire the EVSE (most don’t need a neutral) and re-identify the former white conductor as a hot.

Per code you wrap black (or red) tape on the white at both ends—panel and device—to show it’s now an ungrounded conductor.

The other code item—unrelated to electrical safety but still enforceable—is NEC 210.52(G), which requires at least one 120 V, 15- or 20-amp receptacle in each attached garage (and detached garages with power).

So if there are no other 120 V outlets in the garage and you repurpose the existing wiring for a hard-wired EVSE, you might not pass inspection. In practice, many people don’t pull a permit for a simple breaker/receptacle swap, but officially that’s what the code calls for.

 

[Mark813]

This isn’t particularly a bad speed for us as we do not have to drive very far to access anything and there are 3 DCFC very close if needed.

Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

120v charging can be fine in the right circumstance.

This is close to how I charge currently. I work from home but also have sales appointments B2B outside the home. If I drive 40 miles a day or so I gain a lot (but not all) of that back on the 120V for the 9-12 hours every night. 1.2kw gets me about 3 miles range per hour. If I drive more or forget to plug in I'll catch up or top off at the dcfc.

But I also have dcfc 5 mins away and others everywhere around Tampa Bay.

I will go to the Tesla chargers before 8am to get the cheap rates around $0.21/kwh. (Home charging is costing me around $0.15/kwh)

This is not a good setup for most people though and I guess leads to EV frustration for some unresearched newbies. If you're living in an apartments/condos where you can't always plug in every night and don't have a lot of dcfc near you it's not the right setup.

As mentioned above the Ford charger doesn't have great life span so I'll deal with that when it happens.

I don't have my charger on the same circuit as a garage door opener though.

I wonder if there's a way to prevent the door opener from working when charging. There's that nema 14-50 outlet splitter that doesn't let the dryer run if charging and vice versa.
EDIT: forgot this was a shared garage where you might but have options to mess with the door opener

 

[music_cities]

You’d swap the 5-15R (120 V) for a 6-15R (240 V) which doesn’t require a neutral.

Better yet, hard-wire the EVSE (most don’t need a neutral) and re-identify the former white conductor as a hot.

Per code you wrap black (or red) tape on the white at both ends—panel and device—to show it’s now an ungrounded conductor.

The other code item—unrelated to electrical safety but still enforceable—is NEC 210.52(G), which requires at least one 120 V, 15- or 20-amp receptacle in each attached garage (and detached garages with power).

So if there are no other 120 V outlets in the garage and you repurpose the existing wiring for a hard-wired EVSE, you might not pass inspection. In practice, many people don’t pull a permit for a simple breaker/receptacle swap, but officially that’s what the code calls for.

Now I went down the rabbit-hole (again) of looking at buying an isolation transformer to put on the 240V wires to step down to supply some (fused, lower amps) 120V receptacles. And, again, I've come to the conclusion that if a simple doubling of the voltage on an existing dedicated circuit (swap the breaker, tape the wires red, hardwire in an EVSE) isn't good enough, one can probably save money and effort by just running new wires and getting a faster charge rate to boot. No need to get "imaginative" if it's going to be complex and cost more money! There is sometimes a nice simple option to get 2.5X level 1 charging speed, and if that simple option isn't real then don't pursue it.

 

[HuntingPudel]

You’d swap the 5-15R (120 V) for a 6-15R (240 V) which doesn’t require a neutral.

Better yet, hard-wire the EVSE (most don’t need a neutral) and re-identify the former white conductor as a hot.
<SNIP>

this is what was missing from the original post and would put someone in trouble if neglected. Also of note, one cannot continuously draw 15A on a 15A circuit. Whether the load is hard-wired or plugged in, the circuit must be able to carry 125% of the load, so the EVSE can only be set to 12A On a 15A circuit.

Another issue is one of practicality. There are very few EVSEs that come with a 6-15 plug on them. Hard wiring would be the most practical way to pull off a 240V EVSE install of this sort.

 

[music_cities]

this is what was missing from the original post and would put someone in trouble if neglected. Also of note, one cannot continuously draw 15A on a 15A circuit. Whether the load is hard-wired or plugged in, the circuit must be able to carry 125% of the load, so the EVSE can only be set to 12A On a 15A circuit.

Another issue is one of practicality. There are very few EVSEs that come with a 6-15 plug on them. Hard wiring would be the most practical way to pull off a 240V EVSE install of this sort.

I've only looked at a few of these in real life and the wires were #12AWG which are thick enough for 16amp continuous., with a 20Amp breaker. But, yes, I suppose it might be common for the wires to be #14AWG then you'd have to size the breaker to 15Amps and run 12Amps max continuous.

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