Little heat verified by data log

Logal727

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I really wish someone at FORD would share how the system works and the logic. Anyone have a system diagram from a Service Manual they can share?
Not saying anyone should do this... but a search on Linked In with Ford Engineering does have a bunch of results...
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breeves002

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I really wish someone at FORD would share how the system works and the logic. Anyone have a system diagram from a Service Manual they can share?
Well I posted the coolant hose routing diagram earlier. I've attached the WSM article on the climate control system operation. However I don't think it is what you're looking for. The climate control system only can say it needs heat. It doesn't decide how the valves and pumps work.

I don't see any articles on how the battery heating system works other than that diagram I posted earlier.
 

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Metv707

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This is my 2 nd winter with the Mach E (December 2020 build). I did not encounter any heating problems last winter, however this winter is another story. In very cold weather, my Mach e loses its heating capabilities but only on the highway. Once I get back to city driving, the heat comes back (Quebec, Canada)
 

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Well I posted the coolant hose routing diagram earlier. I've attached the WSM article on the climate control system operation. However I don't think it is what you're looking for. The climate control system only can say it needs heat. It doesn't decide how the valves and pumps work.

I don't see any articles on how the battery heating system works other than that diagram I posted earlier.
Thanks for posting, this is interesting……

When energized by the PCM, the cabin heater coolant diverter valve places the system into the combined loop mode. Coolant flows out of the valve, then back, in the following order:
cabin heater coolant pump
cabin coolant heater
cabin heater coolant temperature sensor heater core
cabin heater coolant diverter valve
HV battery coolant pump
HV battery
Traction battery coolant proportional valve cabin heater coolant diverter valve.

and then this:
Cabin Coolant Heater System
The cabin coolant heater circuit provides warm coolant to the heater core to warm the passenger compartment. A SOBDMC controlled cabin coolant heater warms the coolant. The cabin heater diverter valve allows warm coolant from the electric motor circuit, when available, to enter the cabin heater circuit to provide warm coolant for cabin heat. The upper temperature limit for the cabin heater circuit is 80°C (176°F). The cabin heater coolant temperature sensor, [ ECT sensor], in the cabin heater circuit provides the PCM with coolant temperature information. For additional information on the electric powertrain cooling system,

I find this last description sequence interesting, heating Via the PTC heater but enable’s heating to come from the motor circuit To heat the cabin. The graph the op posted immediately drops in temperature right after he starts driving the car. And it cools the loop quickly. I am wondering if this system is trying to heat the car (with cool water from the motor circuit). His graph loses the hot temp the minute he starts to drive and it cools down to 95F from the initial warmer 158F. Driving the car triggers this sequence…..

I think this has merit! I looked at the graph again and look at the little fluid temperature spikes corresponding with the accelerator or accel use %. Every time he accelerates, the fluid gets slightly warmer. I wonder what fluid temperature A is. It never moves from 15 C which indicates a potential bad sensor. There should be some change even a degree or two.

I suppose accelerating may warm the battery some and cause a similar effect? Or Air flow through the heater core changes with more speed in the car due to air velocity.

Tomorrow I will try to sketch a diagram of the coolant heater loop based on the service manual description. Thanks for posting.
 
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emperor-kebab

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This is my 2 nd winter with the Mach E (December 2020 build). I did not encounter any heating problems last winter, however this winter is another story. In very cold weather, my Mach e loses its heating capabilities but only on the highway. Once I get back to city driving, the heat comes back (Quebec, Canada)
Please consider filing a complaint with Transport Canada. It's the only way we'll see resolution
 


breeves002

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Thanks for posting, this is interesting……

When energized by the PCM, the cabin heater coolant diverter valve places the system into the combined loop mode. Coolant flows out of the valve, then back, in the following order:
cabin heater coolant pump
cabin coolant heater
cabin heater coolant temperature sensor heater core
cabin heater coolant diverter valve
HV battery coolant pump
HV battery
Traction battery coolant proportional valve cabin heater coolant diverter valve.

and then this:
Cabin Coolant Heater System
The cabin coolant heater circuit provides warm coolant to the heater core to warm the passenger compartment. A SOBDMC controlled cabin coolant heater warms the coolant. The cabin heater diverter valve allows warm coolant from the electric motor circuit, when available, to enter the cabin heater circuit to provide warm coolant for cabin heat. The upper temperature limit for the cabin heater circuit is 80°C (176°F). The cabin heater coolant temperature sensor, [ ECT sensor], in the cabin heater circuit provides the PCM with coolant temperature information. For additional information on the electric powertrain cooling system,

I find this last description sequence interesting, heating Via the PTC heater but enable’s heating to come from the motor circuit To heat the cabin. The graph the op posted immediately drops in temperature right after he starts driving the car. And it cools the loop quickly. I am wondering if this system is trying to heat the car (with cool water from the motor circuit). His graph loses the hot temp the minute he starts to drive and it cools down to 95F from the initial warmer 158F. Driving the car triggers this sequence…..

I think this has merit! I looked at the graph again and look at the little fluid temperature spikes corresponding with the accelerator or accel use %. Every time he accelerates, the fluid gets slightly warmer. I wonder what fluid temperature A is. It never moves from 15 C which indicates a potential bad sensor. There should be some change even a degree or two.

Tomorrow I will try to sketch a diagram of the coolant heater loop based on the service manual description. Thanks for posting.
As far as I'm aware the motor loop and cabin/battery loop are not combined. This is bad info in the WSM and it isn't the first time I've seen it. Ford appears to mix ICE documents in the WSM along with stuff that was written then they appear to have made changes and forgotten all about changing the WSM.

Here are pictures of the cooling loops for each along with the picture of the coolant loop for the heater/battery.

I can give you component descriptions if interested.
RWD

Ford Mustang Mach-E Little heat verified by data log imagen2.dll-4


AWD
Ford Mustang Mach-E Little heat verified by data log imagen2.dll-3


GT
Ford Mustang Mach-E Little heat verified by data log imagen2.dll-2


Battery/Cabin coolant loops
Ford Mustang Mach-E Little heat verified by data log imagen2.dll
 

JimmyMachE

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Battery heating strategy might be based on average or minimum temperature of the battery pack. Minimum pack temperature might be even more important than the average in winter.

These sensors in Car Scanner show minimum temperature and the delta between coldest/hottest battery module:
HVB Temperature Range Max
HVB Temperature Range Min

other sensor in the heating loop:
HVB Coolant Inlet Temp
rear/front motor coil and inverter temperatures
 
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Scooby24

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In Sandy's battery tear down you can see the cooling plates under the batteries have no insulation between them and the battery tray on the bottom and they make contact with the plate. When it's super cold out I can only imagine the bottom of the battery tray is acting like a heatsink pulling heat away from the coolant so the coolant is having to deal with cold batteries above pulling out heat as well as a cold bottom battery tray pulling away heat. I think they should have insulated it.
 

Benny’66

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Personally, I think it’s programming. When I first got my GTPE, I was sitting in the driveway (in NY 10deg F) setting it up and when I switched from Auto to manual because the fan is WAY to loud, my heat went away. The car was actually blowing cold air. So I switched back to auto and the warm air came back. This has now happened to me on a few different occasions while either sitting or driving. There is something not right with the manual heat programming. I read in another thread of people having the same issues and the combined response was to put the car in Auto mode. Which I don’t find acceptable because I can’t stand the loud fan noise. But it seems to work.

Just my 2 cents. Maybe this weekend I can plug in my OBDLink MX+ and grab some data.
 

Scooby24

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Personally, I think it’s programming. When I first got my GTPE, I was sitting in the driveway (in NY 10deg F) setting it up and when I switched from Auto to manual because the fan is WAY to loud, my heat went away. The car was actually blowing cold air. So I switched back to auto and the warm air came back. This has now happened to me on a few different occasions while either sitting or driving. There is something not right with the manual heat programming. I read in another thread of people having the same issues and the combined response was to put the car in Auto mode. Which I don’t find acceptable because I can’t stand the loud fan noise. But it seems to work.

Just my 2 cents. Maybe this weekend I can plug in my OBDLink MX+ and grab some data.
Auto has 3 modes to control how aggressive the fan will spin up. If it's too loud just put it on the first auto mode.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Little heat verified by data log 1643114664655
 

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Well my suspicions of something wrong with the heating system are now verified. I did some data logging this am and its not good. Curious if someone who lives in a cold area has the goodies to data log and can get one of a Mach-E with working heat. Waiting on a loaner from the dealer before I can drop it off. Added 2nd pic showing HV battery temp. @Ford Motor Company please help.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Little heat verified by data log 1643114664655


Ford Mustang Mach-E Little heat verified by data log 1643114664655
OP are you wiling to share this data file? PM me if so, thanks!
 

Nklem

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As far as I'm aware the motor loop and cabin/battery loop are not combined. This is bad info in the WSM and it isn't the first time I've seen it. Ford appears to mix ICE documents in the WSM along with stuff that was written then they appear to have made changes and forgotten all about changing the WSM.

Here are pictures of the cooling loops for each along with the picture of the coolant loop for the heater/battery.

I can give you component descriptions if interested.
RWD

imagen2.dll-4.jpeg


AWD
imagen2.dll-3.jpeg


GT
imagen2.dll-2.jpeg


Battery/Cabin coolant loops
imagen2.dll.jpeg
Thanks so much for posting. I love this stuff!

Munro states there are two diverting valves one 4 way and one 2 or 3 way. #3 on the heating plan is the 4 way, #12 on the heating loop is the two-three way. #12 appears to decide whether the battery gets cooling through the chiller or heating/mixing.

I also recall ford saying the system does recoup heat from what I thought was the motor/Inverters ( but maybe it was the battery, which these diagrams indicate) applies it to heating the cabin. again, I do not remember where I heard or saw that. I assume from these diagrams. I guess it's from the battery side.

I do not see any tie between the motor inverter loops and the cabin/battery loop.

The battery heating does absolutely come from the discharge of the cabin heater core (core return water). The fluid goes from the diverter valve, through a pump, through the PTC heater, through the heater core and finally to the diverter valve #3 or mixing piping (# 4) to the battery loop pump and to the battery. It mixes battery return water with warm heater core return water to flow again through the battery for heating.
 
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Benny’66

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Yeah, that doesn’t seem to work for me either. More programming faults or maybe when the car is just so cold it blows like crazy.
 
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OP

camdenlake

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OP are you wiling to share this data file? PM me if so, thanks!
If I could export the data from the app i would :(. I have a support ticket open there must be a way and i dont have enough coffee. lol
 
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OP

camdenlake

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As far as I'm aware the motor loop and cabin/battery loop are not combined. This is bad info in the WSM and it isn't the first time I've seen it. Ford appears to mix ICE documents in the WSM along with stuff that was written then they appear to have made changes and forgotten all about changing the WSM.

Here are pictures of the cooling loops for each along with the picture of the coolant loop for the heater/battery.

I can give you component descriptions if interested.
RWD

Ford Mustang Mach-E Little heat verified by data log 1643114664655


AWD
Ford Mustang Mach-E Little heat verified by data log 1643114664655


GT
Ford Mustang Mach-E Little heat verified by data log 1643114664655


Battery/Cabin coolant loops
Ford Mustang Mach-E Little heat verified by data log 1643114664655
Interesting stuff for sure. A Legend would be nice if not a pita? What changes on the 2022 there is word (purely rumors') the heating is "fixed" on 2022 models. Not sure if those documents are out in the wild yet? Since driving does cause my issue either there maybe a valve stuck or crossover in the PTC?
 
 




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