Little heat verified by data log

[Nklem]

Thanks so much for posting. I love this stuff!

Munro states there are two diverting valves one 4 way and one 2 or 3 way. #3 on the heating plan is the 4 way, #12 on the heating loop is the two-three way. #12 appears to decide whether the battery gets cooling through the chiller or heating/mixing.

I also recall ford saying the system does recoup heat from what I thought was the motor/Inverters ( but maybe it was the battery, which these diagrams indicate) applies it to heating the cabin. again, I do not remember where I heard or saw that. I assume from these diagrams. I guess it's from the battery side.

I do not see any tie between the motor inverter loops and the cabin/battery loop.

The battery heating does absolutely come from the discharge of the cabin heater core (core return water). The fluid goes from the diverter valve, through a pump, through the PTC heater, through the heater core and finally to the diverter valve #3 or mixing piping (# 4) to the battery loop pump and to the battery. It mixes battery return water with warm heater core return water to flow again through the battery for heating.

I did a few calculations today. This information is great to use. I believe the coolant flow from the pump through the heater core is 8 gallons per minute (just deciphering some graph data). That puts the temperature rise through the PTC at 5 degrees F. So on the graph after pre-con, to start you had 158F fluid and 153F before the PTC. Then when you started driving, something pulled all the heat away and cooled the loop down to 90F in about 5 minutes.

In reading the sequence, the MAX defrost or auto defrost control comes to mind as a potential issue. The sequence says when in this mode, it pulls 100% of the air from outside (no mixing with interior air). Having -15F at the face of the heater core, would definitely kill the heating performance, drop the return water temp down quickly (in minutes) and take a long time to recover, if it can recover at all. At best, assuming 500 CFM from the blower (assumption only) you would get a 32 F temp rise from the heater core to the cabin air. So -15F to 32 is a nice and toasty 17F. Before, when preconditioning you may have had 57F air mixing with some outside air giving you a nice 80-90F air temperature (hi fan, higher with lower fan). When it exits this mode, though, it should be able to heat through air changes.

Or are the dampers sticking on a 100% outside air mode.......

I am also thinking back to the GT in MN at -27F on Youtube. They had about 10F coming from the heating vents.... which seems to make sense if this is the case.

Just some more thoughts. I wish I could find my OBD dongle as I want to test mine Thursday AM at -2F.

My Hyundai Ioniq EV has "auto defrost" based on windshield sensors and I turned it off as it would go into that crazy mode a lot and suck down tons of battery power due to the cold air in the Winter time.

 

[camdenlake]

I did a few calculations today. This information is great to use. I believe the coolant flow from the pump through the heater core is 8 gallons per minute (just deciphering some graph data). That puts the temperature rise through the PTC at 5 degrees F. So on the graph after pre-con, to start you had 158F fluid and 153F before the PTC. Then when you started driving, something pulled all the heat away and cooled the loop down to 90F in about 5 minutes.

In reading the sequence, the MAX defrost or auto defrost control comes to mind as a potential issue. The sequence says when in this mode, it pulls 100% of the air from outside (no mixing with interior air). Having -15F at the face of the heater core, would definitely kill the heating performance, drop the return water temp down quickly (in minutes) and take a long time to recover, if it can recover at all. At best, assuming 500 CFM from the blower (assumption only) you would get a 32 F temp rise from the heater core to the cabin air. So -15F to 32 is a nice and toasty 17F. Before, when preconditioning you may have had 57F air mixing with some outside air giving you a nice 80-90F air temperature (hi fan, higher with lower fan). When it exits this mode, though, it should be able to heat through air changes.

Or are the dampers sticking on a 100% outside air mode.......

I am also thinking back to the GT in MN at -27F on Youtube. They had about 10F coming from the heating vents.... which seems to make sense if this is the case.

Just some more thoughts. I wish I could find my OBD dongle as I want to test mine Thursday AM at -2F.

My Hyundai Ioniq EV has "auto defrost" based on windshield sensors and I turned it off as it would go into that crazy mode a lot and suck down tons of battery power due to the cold air in the Winter time.

Great data and thinking. Thank you.

 

[Metv707]

I’m thinking I should bring you guys my car instead of the dealer!

 

[Ride_the_lightning]

In Sandy's battery tear down you can see the cooling plates under the batteries have no insulation between them and the battery tray on the bottom and they make contact with the plate. When it's super cold out I can only imagine the bottom of the battery tray is acting like a heatsink pulling heat away from the coolant so the coolant is having to deal with cold batteries above pulling out heat as well as a cold bottom battery tray pulling away heat. I think they should have insulated it.

This would explain why people lose heat while driving at highway speeds. If an insulated bottom plate would improve things I would think that would be an easy fix by Ford.

 

[mr_raider]

Been driving in cold weather all week with no issues. I notice sometimes I need to raise the thermostat 2 degrees briefly and then drop it back down after to heat the cabin aggressively.

 

[Metv707]

Been driving in cold weather all week with no issues. I notice sometimes I need to raise the thermostat 2 degrees briefly and then drop it back down after to heat the cabin aggressively.

Highway?

 

[mr_raider]

Highway?

Yes.

 

[Metv707]

Yes.

Never had an issue last winter. I’ll have to bring it in to the dealership, but from what I’ve heard, nothing they can do for the moment.

 

[emperor-kebab]

Never had an issue last winter. I’ll have to bring it in to the dealership, but from what I’ve heard, nothing they can do for the moment.

Please consider filing a Transport Canada complaint. I think that's the only way we'll see this fixed

 

[Jimbo]

Well my suspicions of something wrong with the heating system are now verified. I did some data logging this am and its not good. Curious if someone who lives in a cold area has the goodies to data log and can get one of a Mach-E with working heat. Waiting on a loaner from the dealer before I can drop it off. Added 2nd pic showing HV battery temp. @Ford Motor Company please help.

It got cold here last night (though not quite as bad as up there), so I went for a drive to compare.

The following is with heat=69F on Auto 2 (and seat heat on 2, wheel heat on, defrosts off)

Getting kinda busy, but:
*Removed Coolant A as like yours, it was pegged at 15c
*Added Hvb Coolant Inlet Temp to see if it was trying to heat battery at all (seems like no).
*Added speed to see if it appears to have an effect on coolant temp as some theorized (maybe?)

Edit: Forgot to add: This was without preconditioning, battery at ~70% just after unplugging from 120v for a couple hours, from a garage at a bit below freezing.

 

[camdenlake]

It got cold here last night (though not quite as bad as up there), so I went for a drive to compare.

The following is with heat=69F on Auto 2 (and seat heat on 2, wheel heat on, defrosts off)

Getting kinda busy, but:
*Removed Coolant A as like yours, it was pegged at 15c
*Added Hvb Coolant Inlet Temp to see if it was trying to heat battery at all (seems like no).
*Added speed to see if it appears to have an effect on coolant temp as some theorized (maybe?)

interesting. What is your build date? Yours looks to be functioning much better.

 

[Nklem]

It got cold here last night (though not quite as bad as up there), so I went for a drive to compare.

The following is with heat=69F on Auto 2 (and seat heat on 2, wheel heat on, defrosts off)

Getting kinda busy, but:
*Removed Coolant A as like yours, it was pegged at 15c
*Added Hvb Coolant Inlet Temp to see if it was trying to heat battery at all (seems like no).
*Added speed to see if it appears to have an effect on coolant temp as some theorized (maybe?)

Real nice! I noticed your heater stayed on. The Ops shut off when he started to drive for a short time, which may have caused some of the loss.

I hope to try this tomorrow AM on mine. I only have a corded OBD device and will tie to my PC. -2F and I may do it from dead cold, no precon. I hope I can get it to work.

 

[Jimbo]

interesting. What is your build date? Yours looks to be functioning much better.

12/6 (shipped around 12/30)

 

[camdenlake]

12/6 (shipped around 12/30)

So its brand shiny new? or an FE?

 

[Jimbo]

So its brand shiny new? or an FE?

Good point: neonate

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