Mach-E AWD vs. Toyota RAV4 Prime

[RedStallion]

Perhaps PHEV is a rational and most economical solution for some people. For me it's the worst of both worlds. You have a lot more complex drive system with more potential for failures, which require more service. I personally decided I don't want any other ICE car after last year's oil change, when I had to wait outside because of the stupid covid restrictions and then was told they wouldn't have time to service my car and I should go elsewhere. I decided I don't want to deal with oil changes or waste my time and money on any of those mechanics.

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[generaltso]

Just resurrecting this thread to say that I just put a deposit on a RAV4 Prime for my wife. We’ll be replacing her non-hybrid Pacifica. It will be interesting to compare the Prime to the MME even though they’re completely different vehicles. It should arrive in about a month.

It's here! The dealer was about 75 miles away. We got almost 50 miles of full EV driving on the way home before the gas engine kicked in, and then we averaged 40 mpg running on gas for the next 25 miles. It's definitely different than the MME, but it will be perfect for my wife.

 

[ab13]

It's here! The dealer was about 75 miles away. We got almost 50 miles of full EV driving on the way home before the gas engine kicked in, and then we averaged 40 mpg running on gas for the next 25 miles. It's definitely different than the MME, but it will be perfect for my wife.

Were you able to buy it at MSRP or lower? They have too many costly options for it, unless you can live with the slower on board charging. But yes, it will be like driving any other Toyota type vehicle, so the typical driver won't have to think much about it. One other thing about PZEV vehicles, in (all?) ZEV states they have a 15yr/150k warranty for most emission related drivetrain parts.

 

[generaltso]

Were you able to buy it at MSRP or lower? They have too many costly options for it, unless you can live with the slower on board charging. But yes, it will be like driving any other Toyota type vehicle, so the typical driver won't have to think much about it. One other thing about PZEV vehicles, in (all?) ZEV states they have a 15yr/150k warranty for most emission related drivetrain parts.

I paid MSRP, which I was fine with. The ADM that a lot of Toyota dealers are charging on the RAV4 Prime is even worse than the MME.

It’s kinda silly that the super long battery warranty that is required on PHEVs in ZEV states doesn’t also apply to BEVs.

 

[ARK]

I paid MSRP, which I was fine with. The ADM that a lot of Toyota dealers are charging on the RAV4 Prime is even worse than the MME.

It’s kinda silly that the super long battery warranty that is required on PHEVs in ZEV states doesn’t also apply to BEVs.

I'm surprised the government mandates a specific warranty, especially one of that length.

That being said, I could see why a longer warranty on a PHEV battery might be more needed. A PHEV's battery, I would think, is going to be used and abused more in the sense it will be spending a greater amount of time in the 'bad' ranges near 100% full and 0% empty because it isn't a huge battery and the driver will need its full capacity more often.

I'd also bet a PHEV won't have the same degree of battery health management features built in as a full on BEV, but don't know about the RAV4 specifically.

 

[generaltso]

I'm surprised the government mandates a specific warranty, especially one of that length.

I think the theory behind it is that car companies get "credit" for selling a PHEV that can run without it's dirty gas engine for a certain amount of the time. If the high-voltage battery fails or has severe degradation early, the car still drives fine but will be worse for the environment because it has to run the gas engine more. To ensure this doesn't happen, the ZEV requirements are a very long battery warranty. But this risk of driving dirty doesn't really exist for BEVs, so the battery warranty requirement isn't there.

But I still think it's dumb to not require the same long warranty for BEVs if it's required for PHEVs.

 

[generaltso]

I've gotta say, the acceleration in the RAV4 Prime is impressive. It actually has more horsepower than my MME, but only when the engine is running. But even in full EV mode, it takes off way faster than you would think any RAV4 should.

I was surprised by how much taller the Prime is than the Mach-E. It definitely feels more like an SUV.

 

[ab13]

I think the theory behind it is that car companies get "credit" for selling a PHEV that can run without it's dirty gas engine for a certain amount of the time. If the high-voltage battery fails or has severe degradation early, the car still drives fine but will be worse for the environment because it has to run the gas engine more. To ensure this doesn't happen, the ZEV requirements are a very long battery warranty. But this risk of driving dirty doesn't really exist for BEVs, so the battery warranty requirement isn't there.

But I still think it's dumb to not require the same long warranty for BEVs if it's required for PHEVs.

It's not just plug in vehicles either, many models have this rating.

https://m.subaru.ca/WebPage.aspx?WebSiteID=282&WebPageID=17567

 

[ARK]

I've gotta say, the acceleration in the RAV4 Prime is impressive. It actually has more horsepower than my MME, but only when the engine is running. But even in full EV mode, it takes off way faster than you would think any RAV4 should.

I was surprised by how much taller the Prime is than the Mach-E. It definitely feels more like an SUV.

The Mach-E is indeed pretty low as far as SUV’s go. The upside is I think that helps with its driving feel quite a bit, that you are not so far off the ground.

 

[engnrng]

The Mach-E is indeed pretty low as far as SUV’s go. The upside is I think that helps with its driving feel quite a bit, that you are not so far off the ground.

And, the forward facing surface area is less, so pushing less air at highway speeds. Thank you so much @generaltso for posting those comparison pics!!!!

When I drove the RAV4 Prime, I was disappointed in EV mode response compared to a CMAX Energi I drove a few years ago. Fortunately, most driving does not need the high power provided by the R4P gas engine, so it has the potential to be mostly-EV with conscientious owners who plug in every night.

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