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Mach E energy consumption

LYTMCQ

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Based on owning two Volts, range varies a lot with driving condition:temp, speed, rain, snow on the ground, stop and go vs no braking.
That’s why I took off 12% for everyday driving. A good average to use.
 

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That’s a given, Tesla stretches it to 90% but the real issue is that charging slows down significantly starting at 33% so its a matter of how much time do you have for the extra 15% at the top. Same for running it down to below 10%, not good for the long life of the battery. OK occasionally on trips but then it takes a long time for that last 25%.

I’m OK with the numbers I posted above. Tesla lost 6% of battery in 14 months, 25,000 miles of fast DC charging and I’d expect the Mach-E to do the same. Tesla rates battery at 75kWh but it is 84kWh, similar to Mach-E 88kWh rating and 98kWh battery so I expect similar performance. I use fast DC charging exclusively so those are worst case numbers.
Still wondering if there will be regenerative braking at "full charge", that is not the case on Tesla, which is part of the purpose of the 90% charge .
 

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Hi Lyt,
I think you'll be safe with your calculations.
My real-world experience.
I rarely ever/never get the actual EPA range on either of my cars. In the summer I get an extra .5 - 1 mi/kWh and in the winter I lose .5-1 mi/kWh (the -mi/kWh is when I use the heater).
My 2017 Bolt EV is rated at 238 miles. Spring through Fall I routinely beat that range with typical city range being 275+ dropping to 190--225 in deep (Wisconsin) winter with cabin heat, seat heat, and steering wheel heat. On the highway at 75 mph, non-winter range drops to about 210--225. My driving is probably moderate (not overly pushing for high range but not overly heavy footed). If my MME ER AWD exceeds the the estimated range as much as my Bolt has, I will be happy.
 

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Still wondering if there will be regenerative braking at "full charge", that is not the case on Tesla, which is part of the purpose of the 90% charge .
Not the case on either BEV I've driven either: Both the Bolt and the old Focus Electric would not regen with a full charge (my vintage Bolt even has a "hilltop reserve" setting that doesn't charge to full so that if you live on a hill--hence the name--you can regen leaving the house).
 

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16% less at 65 MPH. That's fairly significant. And that's only at 65. In the east that may be more normal highway speed, but further west 75 is more common. Probably well over 400 then.
right, but don't forget it is a guess by ABRP and not determined by empirical data. Tweaking that number slightly doesn't change the economics very much, which ABRP lets you do if you want. As I said the real killer is the EA charging tier system - the third tier starts at 125kw. Even compensating for ABRP charging the nonmember rates, the SR comes in at around $0.095/mi depending upon region, whereas the ER comes in at $0.13-$0.14 / mile. My wife's Durango gets 24mpg on the highway, so the SR is equivalent when gas is at $2.30/gal, but the ER is significantly more expensive. By contrast the model 3 SR+ (which gets around 4mi/kwh at 70 mph) comes to roughly $.05/mi. To compare apples-to-apples, even if the model Y only gets 3 mi/kwh at 70 it is in the $0.065/mi neighborhood.
 
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dbsb3233

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right, but don't forget it is a guess by ABRP and not determined by empirical data. Tweaking that number slightly doesn't change the economics very much, which ABRP lets you do if you want. As I said the real killer is the EA charging tier system - the third tier starts at 125kw. Even compensating for ABRP charging the nonmember rates, the SR comes in at around $0.095/mi depending upon region, whereas the ER comes in at $0.13-$0.14 / mile. My wife's Durango gets 24mpg on the highway, so the SR is equivalent when gas is at $2.30/gal, but the ER is significantly more expensive. By contrast the model 3 SR+ (which gets around 4mi/kwh at 70 mph) comes to roughly $.05/mi. To compare apples-to-apples, even if the model Y only gets 3 mi/kwh at 70 it is in the $0.065/mi neighborhood.
Yep, lots of variables. Hard to boil it down to a single conclusion. That's especially so for BEVs compared to ICE. While ICE is usually more consistent, BEV just has a ton of "well, it depends" built into it.

If nothing else, what this illustrates is just how much better BEVs are on home charging rather than public charging (like EA).
 

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Yep, lots of variables. Hard to boil it down to a single conclusion. That's especially so for BEVs compared to ICE. While ICE is usually more consistent, BEV just has a ton of "well, it depends" built into it.

If nothing else, what this illustrates is just how much better BEVs are on home charging rather than public charging (like EA).
The big reason is because of how efficient BEV's are. Since almost 90% of the power produced by the battery ends up going into moving the car anything extra required (for heat, overcoming wind resistance, etc.) shows up with a far greater affect.

With an ICE being around 30% those affects are lost in the noise--and, in the case of heating, waste heat is just used for heating so doesn't affect the efficiency at all.
 

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Not the case on either BEV I've driven either: Both the Bolt and the old Focus Electric would not regen with a full charge (my vintage Bolt even has a "hilltop reserve" setting that doesn't charge to full so that if you live on a hill--hence the name--you can regen leaving the house).
I know its not the same, but for those curious... my C-Max hybrid (not plug-in) would regen past the "full" battery display in the instrument cluster. Then it would eventually switch to engine breaking when going down hill. Of course, when it shows full the battery is not really full.
 

opennetus

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What's not known is the top end of charging. Will it be necessary to not charge to 100%, will there be regenerative braking with a full charge. This information is yet to be determined.
Telsa cars appear to have a much smaller battery reserve than what Ford has configured, so it is relatively more important with a Tesla to not charge the battery all the way up to 100% on a regular basis to maximize the battery's longevity. I read somewhere that Tesla is estimated to only have about a 2.5 kwh difference in the model Y, between the actual and usable battery capacity. In comparison, the extended range Mustang battery has close to a 10 kwh difference and the standard range battery is at around 8 kwh difference (a better comparison relative to Tesla's battery size).

In short, part of what makes Tesla's day 1 range looks so good on paper is that they open up more of their battery for use (though their cars are also in general more power efficient and aerodynamic), but that leaves more responsibility to the user to manage the battery. All lithium-ion batteries are happiest being as close to the middle of their charge range as possible, so there will still be advantages to not fully charge on days when you don't need the extra range, if you want to keep your battery as healthy as possible.

The fact batteries are never really fully charged early on (because of that battery reserve) and the fact that you would need to wear through the entire reserve before experiencing any degradation of range, along with the active management features, such as precisely regulating battery temperature during operation and charging, is a large part of the reason that electric vehicle batteries last so much longer than other lithium batteries, such as the one in your mobile phone or used by your tools.

I think regenerative braking should work regardless of charge level. Whatever amount of energy that would be recaptured would be less than the amount of energy previously spent to get up to speed in the first place. Compared to DC fast charging, regenerative breaking would be a much smaller charge rate, I would think. Also, because of that buffer, when your battery says it is full, it is not really full, so there is still more "room" to store energy, at least for the first few years.
 
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dbsb3233

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The big reason is because of how efficient BEV's are. Since almost 90% of the power produced by the battery ends up going into moving the car anything extra required (for heat, overcoming wind resistance, etc.) shows up with a far greater affect.

With an ICE being around 30% those affects are lost in the noise--and, in the case of heating, waste heat is just used for heating so doesn't affect the efficiency at all.
Yep. Electric motors are highly efficient.

It's kind of a tale of two cities: the motor vs the fuel storage. BEVs are great with motor efficiency, but bad with fuel storage. ICE is just the reverse. While the motor (engine) is far less efficient, the fuel (gasoline) is far more efficient in terms of energy stored per pound (as well as refueling time).

More of that "well, it depends".
 

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I know its not the same, but for those curious... my C-Max hybrid (not plug-in) would regen past the "full" battery display in the instrument cluster. Then it would eventually switch to engine breaking when going down hill. Of course, when it shows full the battery is not really full.
Yeah my C-Max Energi would do something similar but switch to engine breaking very quickly after hitting the "full mark".

Before picking up the C-Max I had rented a C-Max Hybrid for a vacation in Arizona and experienced that a few times going down hill.
 

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When I placed my order (in Canada), I had the condition that the car has a range of 275 EPA
highway miles. That would be in line with the ratio of the model y (315 miles mix and 291 highway).

I really look forward to seeing the EPA numbers.
 

dbsb3233

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When I placed my order (in Canada), I had the condition that the car has a range of 275 EPA
highway miles. That would be in line with the ratio of the model y (315 miles mix and 291 highway).

I really look forward to seeing the EPA numbers.
I was hoping they'd be out by now. Since they're not, I'm assuming they have to be done on an actual production vehicle, not a preproduction. Which could mean another 3-month wait. 🙁
 

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I also have not seen the polestar 2 numbers.
 



 









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