JohnnyForensic

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You are describing our car until recently. It is also an MME 4X Premium that was delivered in February. It has approximately 3700 miles. The hardware in ours has been fantastic but unfortunately it has now been sitting at our dealership‘s service department more than three weeks due to the car not being able to update its software. (See the 1.7.1 update stuck thread) Ford’s engineers finally decided last Thursday to replace the car’s APIM to see if that will fix the problem. We’re now waiting on the part and hoping that we will get our car back soon. Unfortunately, this entire experience has us questioning the MME’s reliability even though it has been a joy to drive. So all MME owners knock on wood and good luck!
That seems to be the scariest thing…the randomness of it all. I finally got my first update — 1.7.1 — and it seemed to install and work without a hitch. Other people seem to be literally stranded in the middle of an intersection after getting theirs. I have little doubt Ford will eventually get this under control, but I don’t imagine it’s going to be within the first couple of years.
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jjwolf

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Did they not hear about the bad axle / joint problems? ;)
 

ma(x)ch-E

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bUt iTs a StAtIoN wAGoN
 

PCJohnD

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" Among electric SUVs, Fisher said Ford Motor Co's Mustang Mach-E "is the only one with above-average reliability."

That's honestly pretty amazing given that it would be based on first model year, add to that the recalls that have come up, seems to indicate that overall even with those teething issues the Mach E is still scoring above average. Gives me a lot of hope for our 2022 MME order being likely problem free, or at least with the larger stuff worked out.
Further proof of the amazing result is that the Mercedes GLC300 is rated as the most reliable car on the road. My GLC was among the first few thousand off the line in Bremen and as a result I became a beta tester! It was perfect after about a year of tweaking this and tightening that, and it's perfect today . . . the only reason I'm not through the roof waiting for my MME!
 

JeffGo

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Sometimes CR publishes nonsense. They have no data for the Mach-E at this point.

Mine is completely unreliable, in fact sitting in pieces in the shop for the past two weeks while the dealership and Ford try to figure out why the powertrain is locked and can't get out of gear or into neutral. Yeah, fit and finish were quite good. But when a car locks up on the highway, that's not reliable, that's a deadly flaw.

As my B-I-L (Caddy dealer) says: Fails On Road Daily.
 

Larry Paul

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bUt iTs a StAtIoN wAGoN
According to the US Government - the NTHSA (U.S. Government website) it is an SUV.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/ratings/2021-model-year-vehicles-selected-testing-nhtsa

According to the people that designed, build and sell the car, it is an SUV.

According to I think every magazine review it is an SUV (or type of SUV).

Sorry, but I think this is really an SUV according to nearly 100% of authoritative sources including the US Government. I think one place incorrectly listed it as a "Station Wagon" (and it clearly is not a station wagon).
 

Mach1E

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According to the US Government - the NTHSA (U.S. Government website) it is an SUV.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/ratings/2021-model-year-vehicles-selected-testing-nhtsa

According to the people that designed, build and sell the car, it is an SUV.

According to I think every magazine review it is an SUV (or type of SUV).

Sorry, but I think this is really an SUV according to nearly 100% of authoritative sources including the US Government. I think one place incorrectly listed it as a "Station Wagon" (and it clearly is not a station wagon).
How is it clearly not a station wagon?

True SUVs started out built on a truck chassis with high ground clearance and off-road capability.

My Mach is as low to the ground as my Chevy SS was.

Only reason they don’t call it a “station wagon” is because that doesn’t sound cool.

I hate to say it, but it definitely has more in common with this:

03095B2E-947C-4923-9540-0D8A6DFA06F4.jpeg


Than this:
9BBD7CAA-680B-4143-B2E2-90092D531597.jpeg
 

Larry Paul

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How is it clearly not a station wagon?

True SUVs started out built on a truck chassis with high ground clearance and off-road capability.

My Mach is as low to the ground as my Chevy SS was.

Only reason they don’t call it a “station wagon” is because that doesn’t sound cool.

I hate to say it, but it definitely has more in common with this:

03095B2E-947C-4923-9540-0D8A6DFA06F4.jpeg


Than this:
9BBD7CAA-680B-4143-B2E2-90092D531597.jpeg
While lines have been blurred over the years…the MME is a crossover SUV…it does not follow the standard definition for what is a “station wagon” (to me at least) because automotive design norms are:

Station wagons and hatchbacks have in common a two-box design configuration, a shared interior volume for passengers and cargo and a rear door (often called a tailgate in the case of a wagon) that is hinged at roof level. Folding rear seats (in order to create a larger space for cargo) are also common on both station wagons and hatchbacks.

Distinguishing features between hatchbacks and station wagons are:
  • D-pillar: Station wagons are more likely to have a D-pillar (hatchbacks and station wagons both have A-, B- and C-pillars).
The Mach E does not have a “D” pillar, thus it is NOT a “station wagon”
The Mach E does has a hatch and NOT a “tail gate”.


Thus The Mach E is an SUV with a hatch back. Same as a Tesla Model Y, X, Lamborghini URUS, various MBZ and BMW models, and many other cars in this size and shape.

And equally importantly it is how the car is rated by the US government and the manufacturer as well as the industry.

IMHO.
 

Mach1E

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While lines have been blurred over the years…the MME is a crossover SUV…it does not follow the standard definition for what is a “station wagon” (to me at least) because automotive design norms are:

Station wagons and hatchbacks have in common a two-box design configuration, a shared interior volume for passengers and cargo and a rear door (often called a tailgate in the case of a wagon) that is hinged at roof level. Folding rear seats (in order to create a larger space for cargo) are also common on both station wagons and hatchbacks.

Distinguishing features between hatchbacks and station wagons are:
  • D-pillar: Station wagons are more likely to have a D-pillar (hatchbacks and station wagons both have A-, B- and C-pillars).
The Mach E does not have a “D” pillar, thus it is NOT a “station wagon”
The Mach E does has a hatch and NOT a “tail gate”.


Thus The Mach E is an SUV with a hatch back. Same as a Tesla Model Y, X, Lamborghini URUS, various MBZ and BMW models, and many other cars in this size and shape.

And equally importantly it is how the car is rated by the US government and the manufacturer as well as the industry.

IMHO.
You realize that the definition you used didn’t use absolutes.

It says phrases like “are common” and “more likely.”

Not exactly a strict definition.

Now let’s look at SUV definition:

“A sport utility vehicle or SUV is a car classification that combines elements of road-going passenger cars with features from off-road vehicles, such as raised ground clearance and four-wheel drive.”

Raised ground clearance? Definitely not an SUV then.

Crossover, Hatchback, Station wagon. Take your pick. But not an SUV.
 

Larry Paul

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You realize that the definition you used didn’t use absolutes.

It says phrases like “are common” and “more likely.”

Not exactly a strict definition.

Now let’s look at SUV definition:

“A sport utility vehicle or SUV is a car classification that combines elements of road-going passenger cars with features from off-road vehicles, such as raised ground clearance and four-wheel drive.”

Raised ground clearance? Definitely not an SUV then.

Crossover, Hatchback, Station wagon. Take your pick. But not an SUV.
Please note- I started my statement with: “While the lines have been blurred over the years…”.

Crossover - yes (what I classify it to be)
Hatchback - yes (clearly is a hatchback too)
SUV - Based on NTHSA, manufacturer and numerous competing vehicles that also call those vehicles an SUV- yes, however, based on your provide definition, no, clearly not

I was not trying to state it as an absolute... but my main objection is calling it a Station Wagon- It is does not have NOT the historic/classic/traditional “station wagon” or “shooting brake” features or shape in my opinion or to what I would suspect is as defined by the vast numbers of automotive manufacturers or the public.

I consider the Ford Flex to be a station wagon but it is called a crossover SUV... I think a Chevy Suburban is a very large station wagon/SUV.

There were some that classified a Chevy Bolt as a "SUV” (I don't personally). That too is just a hatchback, maybe a crossover…but I did not think that should have been called an SUV either.

The Ford "Ecosmart" is a compact SUV.

https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a31787452/suv-meaning-what-is-an-suv/

as I said, lines have blurred...but I just can't get behind classifying the Mustang Mach E" as a "station wagon" as of all of the classifications say call it something else. A vehicle with a steeply raked rear window, not a lift gate and a "D" pillar is just not a station wagon.

again, IMHO (In My Humble Opinion) or 2 cents or...
 

Mach1E

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Please note- I started my statement with: “While the lines have been blurred over the years…”.

Crossover - yes (what I classify it to be)
Hatchback - yes (clearly is a hatchback too)
SUV - Based on NTHSA, manufacturer and numerous competing vehicles that also call those vehicles an SUV- yes, however, based on your provide definition, no, clearly not

I was not trying to state it as an absolute... but my main objection is calling it a Station Wagon- It is does not have NOT the historic/classic/traditional “station wagon” or “shooting brake” features or shape in my opinion or to what I would suspect is as defined by the vast numbers of automotive manufacturers or the public.

I consider the Ford Flex to be a station wagon but it is called a crossover SUV... I think a Chevy Suburban is a very large station wagon/SUV.

There were some that classified a Chevy Bolt as a "SUV” (I don't personally). That too is just a hatchback, maybe a crossover…but I did not think that should have been called an SUV either.

The Ford "Ecosmart" is a compact SUV.

https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a31787452/suv-meaning-what-is-an-suv/

as I said, lines have blurred...but I just can't get behind classifying the Mustang Mach E" as a "station wagon" as of all of the classifications say call it something else. A vehicle with a steeply raked rear window, not a lift gate and a "D" pillar is just not a station wagon.

again, IMHO (In My Humble Opinion) or 2 cents or...
No worries, I’m not “behind it” either. I just think it’s funny to call it one.

It could be another “Draggin Wagon,” like the Dodge Magnum SRT8 or Cadillac CTSv wagon.


95CA7855-BF67-45A8-A403-3956486E9C3D.jpeg

09541703-05F3-40ED-B600-046DD1B20B02.jpeg
 

Larry Paul

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No worries, I’m not “behind it” either. I just think it’s funny to call it one.

It could be another “Draggin Wagon,” like the Dodge Magnum SRT8 or Cadillac CTSv wagon.


95CA7855-BF67-45A8-A403-3956486E9C3D.jpeg

09541703-05F3-40ED-B600-046DD1B20B02.jpeg
Yes-great examples. There have been many great station wagons...and I really appreciate them for what they are, including muscle car ones.

https://www.streetmusclemag.com/news/our-top-five-muscle-car-wagons-it-comes-down-to-body-and-brawn/

I always appreciated this custom SHO Taurus wagon (scroll way down).

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a36352007/1993-ford-taurus-sho-boss-wagon-by-the-numbers/

I just don't see the Mach E as a "station wagon".
 
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