Mach-E Loses its Consumer Reports Recommended Rating

RickMachE

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Does anyone know if Ford with cover the HVBJB outside of warranty? Did the recall extend the warrant?
There has been no widespread extension of the 8 year / 100,000 mile warranty.

Of course 8 years hasn't passed, and there are maybe 2 or 3 people with 100,000 miles by now.
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RickMachE

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There is so much misunderstanding on this thread that it's not funny.

The CR recommendation change is solely due to survey results. They didn't test the HVBJB, they didn't have it fail. Period.

It apparently affects a large enough percentage of vehicles the NHTSA made Ford do a stop sale until they released software that would cause the HVBJB to fail less abruptly and severely.
The NHTSA didn't make Ford do a stop sale. In fact, there was no stop sale order issued. There was a dealer hold issued. When an active recall is issued, new cars can't be sold without the recall being performed. That is LAW. So, if a recall was issued for floor mats (yes, they have been), then they have to wait until new floor mats are available, or remove them.
 

DYohn

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There is so much misunderstanding on this thread that it's not funny.

The CR recommendation change is solely due to survey results. They didn't test the HVBJB, they didn't have it fail. Period.



The NHTSA didn't make Ford do a stop sale. In fact, there was no stop sale order issued. There was a dealer hold issued. When an active recall is issued, new cars can't be sold without the recall being performed. That is LAW. So, if a recall was issued for floor mats (yes, they have been), then they have to wait until new floor mats are available, or remove them.
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sukhoi_584th

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The NHTSA didn't make Ford do a stop sale. In fact, there was no stop sale order issued. There was a dealer hold issued. When an active recall is issued, new cars can't be sold without the recall being performed. That is LAW. So, if a recall was issued for floor mats (yes, they have been), then they have to wait until new floor mats are available, or remove them.
I'm not following this roundabout logic. Ford was not allowed to sell MMEs until the software was updated thus satisfying the recall, yet that wasn't a stop sale? It was a "dealer hold"? How is that different?

Secondly, the fact that NHTSA made Ford do a recall, which results in a stop sale (or whatever we're now calling it) by law until the recall is performed, means that we're simplifying things too much by saying that NHTSA made Ford do a stop sale? We must say that the NHTSA only caused the recall, which just happens to cause a stop sale, and that the NHTSA was not responsible for the stop sale? What?
 

RickMachE

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I'm not following this roundabout logic. Ford was not allowed to sell MMEs until the software was updated thus satisfying the recall, yet that wasn't a stop sale? It was a "dealer hold"? How is that different?

Secondly, the fact that NHTSA made Ford do a recall, which results in a stop sale (or whatever we're now calling it) by law until the recall is performed, means that we're simplifying things too much by saying that NHTSA made Ford do a stop sale? We must say that the NHTSA only caused the recall, which just happens to cause a stop sale, and that the NHTSA was not responsible for the stop sale? What?
Can you show where the NHTSA made Ford do a recall, vs. Ford telling the NHTSA of the issue and doing a recall?

When a recall is put in place, new cars cannot be sold by law. That's not the NHTSA stopping sales. It's called a dealer hold, so the car isn't sold until it's fixed.

I read nothing where the NHTSA forced anything.
 


sukhoi_584th

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Oh you know how it works for safety recalls. They're "voluntary" as in the NHTSA tells Ford we'll let you do a voluntary recall to save face, and if you don't we'll call for a mandatory recall.

Source: co-worker who worked for an automaker and was involved in recalls
 
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Izzle

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Can you show where the NHTSA made Ford do a recall, vs. Ford telling the NHTSA of the issue and doing a recall?

When a recall is put in place, new cars cannot be sold by law. That's not the NHTSA stopping sales. It's called a dealer hold, so the car isn't sold until it's fixed.

I read nothing where the NHTSA forced anything.
While it is true the NTSB did not initiate the recall through an investigation, the VAST majority of recalls are initiated by the manufacturer since they can be held liable for failure to recall a known safety issue.

In regards to your second issue and the "dealer hold" vs "stop sale", the sale of Mach-Es were "stopped" because the law requires Ford to do so. Per the NTSB website:

"Please be reminded that under 49 U.S.C. § 30112(a)(3), it is illegal for a manufacturer, to sell, offer for sale, import, or introduce or deliver into interstate commerce, a motor vehicle or item of motor vehicle equipment that contains a safety defect once the manufacturer has notified NHTSA about that safety defect. This prohibition does not apply once the motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment has been remedied according to the manufacturer's instructions."

So yes, Ford was required by law to stop the sale, offer for sale, or delivery of any of the affected vehicles once they notified the NTSB of a known safety issue. I'd say that is a "stop sale".

Arguing over the wording of "stop sale" vs "dealer hold" is just semantics since I don't believe (please correct me if I am wrong) there is any definition, let alone any legal mention, distinguishing the difference between a "dealer hold" option vs "stop sale" option for dealers.

In the end let's not kid ourselves that Ford issued this recall out of the kindness of their hearts, there are serious ramifications for them NOT recalling it once they knew of the problem since they themselves filed it as a safety issue.
 
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RickMachE

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While it is true the NTSB did not initiate the recall through an investigation, the VAST majority of recalls are initiated by the manufacturer since they can be held liable for failure to recall a known safety issue.

In regards to your second issue and the "dealer hold" vs "stop sale", the sale of Mach-Es were "stopped" because the law requires Ford to do so. Per the NTSB website:

"Please be reminded that under 49 U.S.C. § 30112(a)(3), it is illegal for a manufacturer, to sell, offer for sale, import, or introduce or deliver into interstate commerce, a motor vehicle or item of motor vehicle equipment that contains a safety defect once the manufacturer has notified NHTSA about that safety defect. This prohibition does not apply once the motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment has been remedied according to the manufacturer's instructions."

So yes, Ford was required by law to stop the sale, offer for sale, or delivery of any of the affected vehicles once they notified the NTSB of a known safety issue. I'd say that is a "stop sale".

Arguing over the wording of "stop sale" vs "dealer hold" is just semantics since I don't believe (please correct me if I am wrong) there is any legal mention of a "dealer hold" option vs "stop sale".
@sukhoi_584th stated pretty clear that Ford was made to do a recall by the NHTSA. That is false, as you note.

He also said they made Ford issue a stop sale. That is also false. They didn't make Ford issue anything. By law, as you note, dealers cannot sell vehicles with known safety defects (i.e. safety recall). It's the law. Ford followed the law. They did this by issuing a dealer hold. That's what it's called.

Saying "stop sale" implies they were ordered to do something. They were not. They voluntary held all Mach-Es to apply the software, which was the recall, before releasing them for sale.
 

All Hat No Cattle

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There has been no widespread extension of the 8 year / 100,000 mile warranty.

Of course 8 years hasn't passed, and there are maybe 2 or 3 people with 100,000 miles by now
If I was an MME owner, I would have to wonder why the MME seems to be sucking hind tit.

For example, in Sept. 2022 I received a letter from Ford about my wife's 2017 Edge, CSP 22N12. It said that over time the flex plate(??) may develop cracks and cause a rattling noise at start-up or while driving.

Long story short, Ford will cover the repair "100% coverage up to 10 years and 100,000 miles".
Also, 50% coverage up to 120,000 miles.

Then, TODAY, I get another letter from Ford concerning my 2016 F-150. Seems that the tailgate can drop when you don't want it to. CSP 21M06.

Same deal, except "repair will be available for 10 years or 150,000 miles".

No debate please, this is just a public service announcement about what Ford can do, when they want to.

Maybe current MME owners will get the same coverage. Eventually:rolleyes:
 

tannerk89

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If I was an MME owner, I would have to wonder why the MME seems to be sucking hind tit.

For example, in Sept. 2022 I received a letter from Ford about my wife's 2017 Edge, CSP 22N12. It said that over time the flex plate(??) may develop cracks and cause a rattling noise at start-up or while driving.

Long story short, Ford will cover the repair "100% coverage up to 10 years and 100,000 miles".
Also, 50% coverage up to 120,000 miles.

Then, TODAY, I get another letter from Ford concerning my 2016 F-150. Seems that the tailgate can drop when you don't want it to. CSP 21M06.

Same deal, except "repair will be available for 10 years or 150,000 miles".

No debate please, this is just a public service announcement about what Ford can do, when they want to.

Maybe current MME owners will get the same coverage. Eventually:rolleyes:
My HVBJB replacement was covered ??‍♂ Right now HVBJB repair is covered 100% up to 8 years 100,000 miles. The current software recall also does it’s job allowing drivers to get their vehicle serviced before it completely stops, where it didn’t before. It’s a crappy problem to have, but so is having your tailgate drop unexpectedly when your carrying a load in the bed. But I guess the problem you understand is better then the one you don’t.
 

All Hat No Cattle

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Right now HVBJB repair is covered 100% up to 8 years 100,000 miles.
I was just informing forum members that ICE vehicles seem to get CSP coverage for 10 years and 150,000 miles. I wonder why?
 

tannerk89

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I was just informing forum members that ICE vehicles seem to get CSP coverage for 10 years and 150,000 miles. I wonder why?
It’s not ICE vs EV. It’s because tailgate is covered by bumper to bumper only which runs out at 3yr/36000miles which was determined to not be adequate to cover the 500k+ vehicles affected by the design flaw. The F150 CSP also came out 7 years after the first truck with that problem came off the line, not 7 months. 8yr/100k miles *should* be enough to catch the flaw that causes the HVBJB to fail for the 60k or so Mach-E’s affected with the improved detection via the software recall. If it’s not they will look into whether there is a business case to justify a CSP that extends the coverage, just like they did with the two vehicles you have.
 

COMachENoDecals

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Considering mine, which is still at the dealer again, has spent over 1 month (the last three months) at the dealership for too many reasons to list, I can verify if I got a CR survey it would be blasted. Now I am at the point where Ford is involved, tech, they have never experienced the issues I am having and they can't fix it. So two strikes, not three on this one? If they can't fix it then I have to look up buy back or lemon actions right? Sucks, I love the car, but if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
 

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I love CR but they gotta stop with the survey results. Basically some people are annoyed with the tech which is constantly getting updated so now the whole car is not recommended. Not to mention the contactor issue is nonexistent on later models. It’s so misleading.
Agree, and they have a huge problem with selection bias in their results. You see this in the variation of results between badge engineered vehicles. For example, a Buick will rank far above the GM version of the vehicle which rolls down the same assembly line. Presumably, this is because the buicks are bought by older folks who don't a.) Don't put many miles on their vehicles, and; b.) Don't use the tech features as much, but it begs the question: what are these survey results really telling us?

I always say that CR is ok for ranking appliances, and if you view your car as an appliance they might be a good source for determining how happy you will be with a vehicle. Personally, if I was buying an appliance vehicle I would have bought a Bolt or a Model Y.
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