Mach E web series Part 4 - Performance and Charging

[Shayne]

For those saying well why not 5%. Well making 10 cars and testing them and making 50k cars and letting customers test them is very different. They probably want to see how well the batteries hold up to real world everyday use. And if they see no problems they can unlock some via ota after they see there are no issues

Why you think degradation will be less if you have a higher buffer? Some how the batteries will be better quality? The only reason would be to hide the degradation as it happens not stop it from happening. Tesla mentality or what; when I purchased the 100 KWh pack I was hoping to make 400 KM @ -20 oC that appears, when the EPA comes out based on a 88 KWh pack, will be a no go. I did not expect less than 90% of what I purchased. I am up for wishful thinking that we will get the batteries we purchased eventually ?.

P.S. I have ran my tanks dry every time for the last 20 years, keeps water from building up in the tank and problems during those -30's. I have never heard it scrape the bottom.

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[kdryden99]

Why you think degradation will be less if you have a higher buffer? Some how the batteries will be better quality? The only reason would be to hide the degradation as it happens not stop it from happening. Tesla mentality or what; when I purchased the 100 KWh pack I was hoping to make 400 KM @ -20 oC that appears, when the EPA comes out based on a 88 KWh pack, will be a no go. I did not expect less than 90% of what I purchased. I am up for wishful thinking that we will get the batteries we purchased eventually ?.

P.S. I have ran my tanks dry every time for the last 20 years, keeps water from building up in the tank and problems during those -30's. I have never heard it scrape the bottom.

I don't think its about degradation as it is about how far can you push the batteries and how much range you can get safely. Ford mentioned that they have temp sensors all over the car so I believe they want to make sure that the battery's temp stays below a certain limit. Once they get the data from all these cars running around and see no over heating issues they will push the buffer lower and wait again. Remember we are thinking about it as 1 battery but in reality it's thousands of cells working in unison.

Look at Kia they have no idea why their cars are overheating and catching fire, do you want that to happen to your car. Just like the divider in the frunk, its most likely a safety issue

 

[kdryden99]

P.S. I have ran my tanks dry every time for the last 20 years, keeps water from building up in the tank and problems during those -30's. I have never heard it scrape the bottom.

you wont hear it scrape, it's an expression as in you dont want it to pick up any garbage that is sitting on the bottom of the tank. You might be one of the lucky ones but your gas filter can get clogged up and with no gas your pump is not lubricated.

Here watch my friend scotty explain it.

 

[Shayne]

I don't think its about degradation as it is about how far can you push the batteries and how much range you can get safely. Ford mentioned that they have temp sensors all over the car so I believe they want to make sure that the battery's temp stays below a certain limit. Once they get the data from all these cars running around and see no over heating issues they will push the buffer lower and wait again. Remember we are thinking about it as 1 battery but in reality it's thousands of cells working in unison.

Look at Kia they have no idea why their cars are overheating and catching fire, do you want that to happen to your car. Just like the divider in the frunk, its most likely a safety issue

That is what we are all worried about up here; over heating . The frunk is the least of my complaints and care less if we are divided. They can limit charge on DCFC. The engineer from ford said in the P4 of this thread that you can do absolutely no damage with an L2.

 

[ajmartineau]

Why you think degradation will be less if you have a higher buffer? Some how the batteries will be better quality?

... tl;dr

The bigger buffer prevents yahoos from charging to 100% and from running it down to 0% ....Which helps to prevent degradation, as shown in the slide earlier.

 

[kdryden99]

That is what we are all worried about up here; over heating . The frunk is the least of my complaints and care less if we are divided. They can limit charge on DCFC. The engineer from ford said in the P4 of this thread that you can do absolutely no damage with an L2.

I don't even think its from charging i thibk it might be the actual driving theyre worried about.

 

[Shayne]

you wont hear it scrape, it's an expression as in you dont want it to pick up any garbage that is sitting on the bottom of the tank. You might be one of the lucky ones but your gas filter can get clogged up and with no gas your pump is not lubricated.

Here watch my friend scotty explain it.

If you run it dry from brand new there will be no garbage (water) to pick up. If you are one that always fills it when it is still half full that may not be the case as you have allowed it to build up. Two different philosophies and each to his own. Buying an EV now.

 

[ajmartineau]

 

[Shayne]

... tl;dr

The bigger buffer prevents yahoos from charging to 100% and from running it down to 0% ....Which helps to prevent degradation, as shown in the slide earlier.

Because all us guys are yahoos? Abuse is what I have planned for this purchase.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Since they standardized to full cycle equivalents this really says two things:
1) stay in the mid-range
2) short cycles are better than deep cycles.

Both of those make sense. It's unfortunate the figure doesn't have 10% SOC charging at multiple parts of the range. Is 75-65% good because it is only 10% or because it is near the middle. Would 90-100% be the same?

 

[kdryden99]

Since they standardized to full cycle equivalents this really says two things:
1) stay in the mid-range
2) short cycles are better than deep cycles.

Both of those make sense. It's unfortunate the figure doesn't have 10% SOC charging at multiple parts of the range. Is 75-65% good because it is only 10% or because it is near the middle. Would 90-100% be the same?

im willing to bet its the same. By charging in short bursts you reduce charging times and lower the battery temps

 

[JamieGeek]

I don't think its about degradation as it is about how far can you push the batteries and how much range you can get safely. Ford mentioned that they have temp sensors all over the car so I believe they want to make sure that the battery's temp stays below a certain limit. Once they get the data from all these cars running around and see no over heating issues they will push the buffer lower and wait again. Remember we are thinking about it as 1 battery but in reality it's thousands of cells working in unison.

Look at Kia they have no idea why their cars are overheating and catching fire, do you want that to happen to your car. Just like the divider in the frunk, its most likely a safety issue

They only said that the development cars have temp sensors everywhere. Doesn't necessarily mean that the production vehicles will (more likely the production vehicles have temp sensors in key areas but not everywhere like the development ones).

 

[Shayne]

Since they standardized to full cycle equivalents this really says two things:
1) stay in the mid-range
2) short cycles are better than deep cycles.

Both of those make sense. It's unfortunate the figure doesn't have 10% SOC charging at multiple parts of the range. Is 75-65% good because it is only 10% or because it is near the middle. Would 90-100% be the same?

Was hashed out a bit when first posted; cycles vs years (miles). Not much to see there. Up here ours rust out. Weird charging ranges in that chart; guess between green and teal somewhere? I thought 80% was a good #. Batteries are currently pretty good and 5 years from now should be even better.

 

[Shayne]

Was interesting that they said that the pack was an integral part of the rigidity of the vehicle; especially in torsion. I assume they were referencing the case; a thin walled closed box section (like a drive shaft torsionally stiff). Smart and makes sense for weight to use it structurally also if you can. Have not seen too many good pictures of how the whole platform bolts together but it looks like a front and back clip.

 

[KAustin]

So nothing on why we are carrying around 11% of the battery as dead weight? Tesla 100 D has a 4% buffer therefore its warranty is 66% remaining battery after 8 years. Fords is 11% which equates to a warranty of 59% remaining battery after 8 years. Was hoping they would reconsider just dragging around all that dead weight, at a noticeable cost, and gives us the range/battery we paid for. 94 KWh at least (7% more range). Anyone here think when you bought a 100 KWh pack from Ford that 270 would end up the range? Appears they have enough leeway to decrease the warranty. Still looking forward to the MME but reduce that enormous buffer and let the mustang free. Rant over.

I'm pretty sure they said the warranty was at 70% yesterday.

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