New Mach-E LFP Battery Specs Revealed

[Blue highway]

If you only charge once a week, 2000 cycles is over 38 years. 99% of these cars willl be gone by then.

I think of the curves in terms of miles.

2.5 miles per kW X battery capacity (70kW in my case) X cycles

2.5 x 70 x 1000 = 175K miles for SR.

but yes, even the NMC batteries will last longer than most ICE powertrains.

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[Blue highway]

I guess that’s great for the used car market but by the time I’d reach 1000 or 2000+ cycles I personally probably wouldn’t have my vehicle anymore. As great as it is to have a vehicle that can update, being a tech person I’m also aware that every few years or so there’s going to be a major upgrade somewhere that doesn’t apply to older vehicles and I’ll want to have a newer vehicle for that tech and the fact that it’s newer and most likely more reliable (from the perspective of new vs old).

being good for the used market means

• the residual value of your trade will be higher
• thus the total cost of ownership of your car will be lower.

 

[Blue highway]

So just to understand it, is the LFP battery able to store the same amount as the SR lion battery, but it's probably the size and weight of the ER battery? Does that mean there can't/won't be an ER version of the LFP battery?

In it's current form I think you are drawing the right conclusions.

• an LFP MME battery will be ~70kW about the same as an SR battery today.
• we don't have the exact dimensions but its reasonable to surmise that it will occupy about the same space and weight as an LR battery. Thus not enough space for 100kWh of LFP currently.

 

[voxel]

Do you have an actual figure for the number of replacements? And something that details why the battery was replaced (catastrophic failure, capacity degradation), how many miles it was replaced at, percentage of replacements to cars produced? That sort of detail would be helpful.

No idea. I've perused the Tesla Model S forums and it's discussion after discussion about battery replacements.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/forums/model-s-battery-charging.109/

Electrified Garage Ocala is nearby and from what I heard (second hand but from a good friend) as they perform a good number of HV battery replacements on older Model Ss and that's why you see 2012-2014 cars sell for $20K-ish or less.

They have an open-house this weekend (Feb 18th) so I may ask them directly about how many they replace a year.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

The data gathered on a Dutch forum has almost 2,000 entries (more than one entry per owner is allowed). There's minimal degradation of the Model S batteries.

 

[voxel]

The data gathered on a Dutch forum has almost 2,000 entries (more than one entry per owner is allowed). There's minimal degradation of the Model S batteries.

Notice I how I never mention degradation. Li-ion batteries fail randomly like how engines can fail too. All it takes is a single cell to fail and an entire battery module needs to be replaced (usually the entire pack with a new refurb pack).

The likelihood seems higher around the 8-10 year mark but I don't have data. It could be Tesla EVs have X percentage of failures annually but since they are under warranty you hear little about it and Tesla is probably secretive of such figures. Will bug Electrified Garage Ocala about any info they have.

 

[Lepris]

In it's current form I think you are drawing the right conclusions.

• an LFP MME battery will be ~70kW about the same as an SR battery today.
• we don't have the exact dimensions but its reasonable to surmise that it will occupy about the same space and weight as an LR battery. Thus not enough space for 100kWh of LFP currently.

If that is the case, I suppose the strategy could be to reserve the lion batteries for the ER orders. It would just mean the newer SR vehicles with LFP pack might weigh more than the older SR models. Not the worst tradeoff, but some LFP owners might find it annoying, especially if they live somewhere pretty cold.

It'd be nice if ford also made up for this by optimizing the hvac and wiring to cut the identified excess weight in the car. I think there something like 100 lbs worth of redundancy tubing and wiring they can remove?

 

[Blue highway]

If that is the case, I suppose the strategy could be to reserve the lion batteries for the ER orders. It would just mean the newer SR vehicles with LFP pack might weigh more than the older SR models. Not the worst tradeoff, but some LFP owners might find it annoying, especially if they live somewhere pretty cold.

It'd be nice if ford also made up for this by optimizing the hvac and wiring to cut the identified excess weight in the car. I think there something like 100 lbs worth of redundancy tubing and wiring they can remove?

yeah, I think Ford will do what Tesla has done and use LFP for lower spec cars and NMC for the long range ones.

as for removing wiring... don't hold your breath. The time and cost redesigning the modules, connections, wire harnesses, manufacturing process, supply chain, inventory etc. all suggest that any refinements will come in July 2026 when the current MMEs go out of production and are replaced with a new model.

 

[ArthurDOB]

All this speculation is giving me a headache. I just want to know what is factual. Still too early for that, apparently....

 

[mburtsvt]

This feels like such a huge step backwards. Why is this being promoted as a good thing?

COST!

 

[devmach-e]

No idea. I've perused the Tesla Model S forums and it's discussion after discussion about battery replacements.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/forums/model-s-battery-charging.109/

Electrified Garage Ocala is nearby and from what I heard (second hand but from a good friend) as they perform a good number of HV battery replacements on older Model Ss and that's why you see 2012-2014 cars sell for $20K-ish or less.

They have an open-house this weekend (Feb 18th) so I may ask them directly about how many they replace a year.

There's a design defect in early Model S models (up through Q1 2015) that leads to moisture intrusion into the battery pack. The drain hose for the A/C compressor goes right above the fuse box for the battery.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...-pack-has-moisture-ingress-issues-199073.html

This might be why that local shop is doing a lot of 2012-2014 battery replacements. Not because the battery modules in the battery pack are prone to excess degradation or failure from use.

 

[mkhuffman]

mean while Nissan and toyota are going ahead with solid state batteries that can charge to 80% in mins and have longer range and a much safer battery. I love ford but this does not seem wise to invest this much into something that will be out dated before they even get it up and running.

Production volume of SSBs could be a decade away. Meanwhile Ford is making money selling lots of BEVs. Time will tell if being early is an advantage or not, but if they figure out how to make good money today off BEVs, it's a win in my book.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Production volume of SSBs could be a decade away. Meanwhile Ford is making money selling lots of BEVs. Time will tell if being early is an advantage or not, but if they figure out how to make good money today off BEVs, it's a win in my book.

Yep. I want my imperfect car today; I'm not willing to wait for perfect.

 

[kltye]

mean while Nissan and toyota are going ahead with solid state batteries that can charge to 80% in mins and have longer range and a much safer battery. I love ford but this does not seem wise to invest this much into something that will be out dated before they even get it up and running.

Did they launch a product with solid state batteries yet? I must have missed that?

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