Possibly Facing Eviction; Advice Needed

[dtbaker61]

I need some advice here. What are you guys thoughts? What should I do?

I think the most reasonable and fair approach would be to suggest that ALL garage units meter and bill usage to 'owners' rather than to the Association since not everyone has the same benefit or usage.

There are 'meterless' ways to track and report specific circuit consumption that are inexpensive, and upload data to web portals. For example, the Efergy Classic is available for less than $150 that could be installed in each garage subpanel, or the Emporia system can monitor 16 different circuits if there is a central sub-panel powering all the garages (with separate circuits).

Too bad you spent money on a lawyer....

But, I would try to walk it back and suggest an addendum to ALL owners with garages that would be fair no matter what their use is. (freezers, EVs, electric bikes, or whatever.) This would even open up a 'fair' way to upgrade the garage, add a 240v outlet, and charge at 7kw..... since there would be a way to track and pay for use. I would position this as an 'improvement' that would make that garage more valuable to future renters.... especially anyone with an EV.

This is something that LOTS of Apartments, Condos, etc are going to have to figure out. A fair way to install 240v outlets, and how to bill the individuals using the energy rather than billing the main Association account that the circuits may be added to if they are on a different service to light an exterior carport for instance.

Sponsored

 

[SightUp]

Offer to buy this - https://amzn.to/3AZ1wux. It's called a Kill A Watt Energy Usage Monitor. It costs $30. Plug it into the wall, plug the 120v cord into it, and DON'T reset it. It will provide the usage of electricity. Each month, go in on the 30th and take a picture of the relevant screens to show your usage, and pay them the usage times the rate agreed to. Done.

Start by paying them $30 for the coming month, and then each month take a reading at the end of the month and do the math. "I paid $30 for December, and on 12/31/22 reading was XX kWh. XX x agreed upon price = $YY.YY."

They work great. Our library loans them out for free.

I like this solution.
Is this one you have personal experience with? The Amazon recommended one is a Poniie PN1500 that is 16 dollars.
Recommendations?

 

[nvabill]

I live in a small town and work is only about 10 miles away.

The only fast charger is 15min, so 30min total out of my way so, two hours every other day gone just to charge. .

I need some advice here. What are you guys thoughts? What should I do?

Seems to me being as your work is only about 10 miles away you would only need to use the DC Fast charger 2-3 times per month. How about level 2 chargers at maybe car dealers, any of them around?

 

[dtbaker61]

I like this solution.
Is this one you have personal experience with? The Amazon recommended one is a Poniie PN1500 that is 16 dollars.
Recommendations?

I have used these.... and would NOT recommend for monitoring L1 charging. They are listed for 15amps.... but after 5-8 hours at 10amps, they get very hot and I have had several melt. The are not intended to monitor heavy load for 3+ hours.

Much better to use CT pickups installed in the subpanel. More expensive, but more accurate, and can upload to web portals so nobody has to physically run around and read meters. Shop for the Efergy or Emporia products.... NOT plug-in pass thrus like the kill-a-watt or cheaper knockoffs

if the garages are on separate circuits fed from a central panel, the multi-circuit Emporia would be a great solution. If the garages are on a shared circuit, then you'll need separate monitors in each garage junction box. something like
$129
https://www.floridaecoproducts.com/products/efergy-engage-hub-kit

 

[Logal727]

I agree there's definitely some inconsistencies in the way the contract has been presented to you and the reality of the situation.

But I've got a question, how much is it worth to you to be proven right? Is it worth continuing to pay a lawyer when it could only maybe cost you $10 mo otherwise? Is it worth it to make enemies with your apartment complex who could make your life a living hell if they wanted to? These are things I do the math on a lot and sometimes it's better to just compromise.

 

[SightUp]

I agree there's definitely some inconsistencies in the way the contract has been presented to you and the reality of the situation.

But I've got a question, how much is it worth to you to be proven right? Is it worth continuing to pay a lawyer when it could only maybe cost you $10 mo otherwise? Is it worth it to make enemies with your apartment complex who could make your life a living hell if they wanted to? These are things I do the math on a lot and sometimes it's better to just compromise.

The problem is, and while I have not confirmed it, I know it to be the way it will be, they will try to tack on a nice round number of, say, 100 dollars extra per month effectively making my bill 225 per month. While I am not seeking a crusade, I don't want to roll over and be walked on either.

 

[Logal727]

The problem is, and while I have not confirmed it, I know it to be the way it will be, they will try to tack on a nice round number of, say, 100 dollars extra per month effectively making my bill 225 per month. While I am not seeking a crusade, I don't want to roll over and be walked on either.

I would present to them the numbers of how little electricity the vehicle uses or have them install a meter.

 

[ponEpwr]

I'm not sure I'd trust a lawyer that only charges $175/hr. That barely pays his college loans.

$175/hr lawyer "charges" 80 hours a week. Lol probably charges 2 hours to read and respond to a single email.

 

[ponEpwr]

Also, when 3 or 4 people throw an EV charger on that circuit the breaker goes pop? I doubt the complex wants to deal with frequently overloading the circuit if they continue to allow everyone to just plug into it.

 

[ARK]

Just because the lease agreement doesn't talk about EV charging doesn't mean you get the electricity for free. That's a pretty unreasonable outcome and when judges get asked to weigh in on things neither side really thought about when entering into the contract, they try to avoid unreasonable decisions.

Does your lease agreement say somewhere, probably near the bottom, that any changes to the terms of the lease must be in writing, and that just because management doesn't immediately pounce on enforcement of a right doesn't mean they are waiving their right to enforce the contract later? If so, you really have no case.

 

[AKgrampy]

The problem is, and while I have not confirmed it, I know it to be the way it will be, they will try to tack on a nice round number of, say, 100 dollars extra per month effectively making my bill 225 per month. While I am not seeking a crusade, I don't want to roll over and be walked on either.

If it were me I would suggest an increase, place a non utility meter to verify, and then the management can revisit this in the future. If they are unwilling to accept this than just do not charge in your garage. Something does need to be done for the future to meter but it should not be on your nickel; although, any costs to install equipment will be passed on to renters over time.

 

[RickMachE]

Also, when 3 or 4 people throw an EV charger on that circuit the breaker goes pop? I doubt the complex wants to deal with frequently overloading the circuit if they continue to allow everyone to just plug into it.

1 max

 

[mkhuffman]

I like this solution.
Is this one you have personal experience with? The Amazon recommended one is a Poniie PN1500 that is 16 dollars.
Recommendations?

I have used these.... and would NOT recommend for monitoring L1 charging. They are listed for 15amps.... but after 5-8 hours at 10amps, they get very hot and I have had several melt. The are not intended to monitor heavy load for 3+ hours.

Much better to use CT pickups installed in the subpanel. More expensive, but more accurate, and can upload to web portals so nobody has to physically run around and read meters. Shop for the Efergy or Emporia products.... NOT plug-in pass thrus like the kill-a-watt or cheaper knockoffs

if the garages are on separate circuits fed from a central panel, the multi-circuit Emporia would be a great solution. If the garages are on a shared circuit, then you'll need separate monitors in each garage junction box. something like
$129
https://www.floridaecoproducts.com/products/efergy-engage-hub-kit

I second Dan's recommendation. I have a Emporia power monitor inside my circuit breaker box. It does a great job of measuring exactly how much electricity I use.

You could even offer to buy the monitor for them, but probably it is best they take full responsibility and buy it themselves. It is very inexpensive (compared with having the power company install a meter), and it can monitor at least 8 circuits at a time. Not only that, they install it inside the circuit breaker box so the apartment complex won't have to worry that you are somehow bypassing the monitor and charging more than they are aware. Their own maintenance people can install it. It is very easy to do. So for $129, they can monitor all the garages (depending on how many there are, of course).

 

[dtbaker61]

Also, when 3 or 4 people throw an EV charger on that circuit the breaker goes pop? I doubt the complex wants to deal with frequently overloading the circuit if they continue to allow everyone to just plug into it.

I would hope that each garage is on a separate 15amp 120v circuit at a minimum.... but the BETTER long term solution would be to run separate 240 60 amp drops to a sub panel in each garage, meter them electronically, and install 240v NEMA 14-50 outlets in each to be 'EV ready', and bill renters for what they actually consume, plus a reasonable admin fee to read the meter and bill monthly

 

[superdave80]

The property “owners”(company) probably had to pay an electric bill that was out of line what they budgeted for and previous bills so they had to find the “user” to pass along the fees.

No, they only knew about the charger because they saw it while setting some mouse traps. There is no way that they noticed a (maybe) extra $15-$20/month on their electric bill.

Sponsored