Possibly Facing Eviction; Advice Needed

[SightUp]

At the end of the day, all tenants pay for what they are/will be using. Landlords simply pass the cost onto their tenants. I own two rental properties and that is reality.

With that being said, contracts adjust to things on the ground so to speak. I would guess that very few contracts had envisioned EV's at their complex and they will now need to adjust to these situations that they had not thought about.

The Landlord will win the war but may lose the battle on this one. If I were the landlord on this one, I would adjust all future contracts/lease agreements with exact wording to the situation and chalk this one off to a "learning experience". After all, $30 per month (that is just a guess) is not going to break the bank on either side but it wouldn't be advised for either party to take this to court.

Once again, contracts usually have an expiration date and that is the time for the shoe to drop. I would bet that this is one of thousands of situations that are happening or soon to happen within the next few years.

Btw, my two rentals are simple. The tenant pays for all of their utilities currently and I am good. If they choose to plug in an appliance that spins the meter, I say go for it.

So, a little more information about the complex, personal opinion on the subject(which I have attempted to leave out thus far), and reiteration.

Who builds a luxury complex, charges 200-300 dollars more on average for the apartment and 50-75 dollars more on average for the garage monthly than the local area, and not have what should be considered basic amenities in 2022 and future proof it? What kind of foresight do you have? $$$ signs are all that they see and just because you slap thin granite countertops on cheap plywood doesn't mean the phrase of you can put lipstick on a pig isn't applicable... So, when most apartments in my area are 800-900 per month and another 50-60 dollars for a garage and you are paying a grand total 1,325 instead, you expect certain things. Things in this case are not being seen. They are getting paid more than the market's value and my small charging cost should be easily covered. Now, I understand I did accept and sign a contract. But, once again, I was told the garage was mine and I could use it and the ports to charge my EV prior and after signing a contract and moving in. And just like an owner, if I was to leave early, they'd use the lease against me to their advantage and take my deposit and charge me more. Now the tables have turned, and I want to use the contract to my advantage, why am I the bad guy here? Now I get you use what you pay for, but I am not going to update THEIR complex on my dime to accommodate a request that has been made after an agreement was reached that is verifiable through other witnesses at the complex. It was one of the main points why I moved into this apartment.

Anyone ever see/hear John Mulaney Delta Airlines skit? You can find it on YT. I really feel like I am living that skit right now.

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[cafdiniz]

Again, just because you CAN take something, doesn’t mean it’s your right or that you should.

If the community has a public pool, should you be allowed to drain the pool water to use to water your lawn?

Lease is vague doesn’t say you “can’t.”

Charging a car daily is obviously a new situation they’re trying to figure out. Uses waaaaaaay more electricity than a fridge.

And if you’re using more, you should pay for it. That’s what new management figured out.

And in the meantime? You’re taking advantage and doing it in the worst way (rude communication and lawyers).

But hey…. That’s just how people “get their way” these days I guess.

THIS.

A reasonable judge would ask a simple question to end this: Should OP’s neighbors pay for his “fuel”?

If I knew this was happening in my building with management’s consent, I‘d start my own battle to get my rent decreased since the lease doesn’t say I might be paying for my neighbor’s personal expenses.

 

[Scooby24]

alright guys, nothing being said is being absorbed or even considered by OP, it would seem. I think we're done here.

 

[DennisD]

So, a little more information about the complex, personal opinion on the subject(which I have attempted to leave out thus far), and reiteration.

Who builds a luxury complex, charges 200-300 dollars more on average for the apartment and 50-75 dollars more on average for the garage monthly than the local area, and not have what should be considered basic amenities in 2022 and future proof it? What kind of foresight do you have? $$$ signs are all that they see and just because you slap thin granite countertops on cheap plywood doesn't mean the phrase of you can put lipstick on a pig isn't applicable... So, when most apartments in my area are 800-900 per month and another 50-60 dollars for a garage and you are paying a grand total 1,325 instead, you expect certain things. Things in this case are not being seen. They are getting paid more than the market's value and my small charging cost should be easily covered. Now, I understand I did accept and sign a contract. But, once again, I was told the garage was mine and I could use it and the ports to charge my EV prior and after signing a contract and moving in. And just like an owner, if I was to leave early, they'd use the lease against me to their advantage and take my deposit and charge me more. Now the tables have turned, and I want to use the contract to my advantage, why am I the bad guy here? Now I get you use what you pay for, but I am not going to update THEIR complex on my dime to accommodate a request that has been made after an agreement was reached that is verifiable through other witnesses at the complex. It was one of the main points why I moved into this apartment.

Anyone ever see/hear John Mulaney Delta Airlines skit? You can find it on YT. I really feel like I am living that skit right now.

Actually, you (the tenant) will in effect be updating any and all things down the road via rent. That is economics 101 if you will.

Once again, I am on your side so to speak. I see it both ways. While it is the Landlord's responsibility to write up all contracts to the exact letter if you will, the Landlords will protect them selves for survival and they will pass on all future costs to the consumer. If it is vague and it is a relatively small cost, I (the landlord in this example) would be better off to absorb the cost and tack on the "added" cost down the road to all future rent via new contracts.

I, being a business owner of a Driving School do this all of the time. As my employee's get a raise and gas prices creep up, I in turn charge more for the Driving Service. It is no different in my rentals. If my taxes and insurance goes up, so does the rent. That is how things work. The Landlord assumes risks by things going sideways in the short term and that is why a little cushion is baked into the rent in most cases. In your case, if I were the landlord, I would absorb this as well but then "bake it in" going forward.

If they are charging more than their competition and getting people to stay/rent in their facility, that is the "now going rate". You may not like it but it is what it is my friend.

 

[Thesmoothdome]

So, a little more information about the complex, personal opinion on the subject(which I have attempted to leave out thus far), and reiteration.

Who builds a luxury complex, charges 200-300 dollars more on average for the apartment and 50-75 dollars more on average for the garage monthly than the local area, and not have what should be considered basic amenities in 2022 and future proof it? What kind of foresight do you have? $$$ signs are all that they see and just because you slap thin granite countertops on cheap plywood doesn't mean the phrase of you can put lipstick on a pig isn't applicable... So, when most apartments in my area are 800-900 per month and another 50-60 dollars for a garage and you are paying a grand total 1,325 instead, you expect certain things. Things in this case are not being seen. They are getting paid more than the market's value and my small charging cost should be easily covered. Now, I understand I did accept and sign a contract. But, once again, I was told the garage was mine and I could use it and the ports to charge my EV prior and after signing a contract and moving in. And just like an owner, if I was to leave early, they'd use the lease against me to their advantage and take my deposit and charge me more. Now the tables have turned, and I want to use the contract to my advantage, why am I the bad guy here? Now I get you use what you pay for, but I am not going to update THEIR complex on my dime to accommodate a request that has been made after an agreement was reached that is verifiable through other witnesses at the complex. It was one of the main points why I moved into this apartment.

Anyone ever see/hear John Mulaney Delta Airlines skit? You can find it on YT. I really feel like I am living that skit right now.

Sounds like this has become a major frustration which you can't shake. Is it worth the aggravation? I know we use the forum to vent and seek support, but getting jammed up for a few dollars when living in a "luxury" complex and driving a new $50k car doesn't sound like this is game changer, rather more of a personal soapbox.

We are still early adopters. Pre-Covid, we didn't hear much about EVs taking over the world. Now, it's becoming the gold standard. When your luxury complex was designed, EVs were still in their infancy. I'll bet most projects under construction now are either ignoring the need or spending the money to retrofit, which will be passed along to occupants.

Use the contract language. Stand your ground and use the remaining time you have there packing and looking for a new place. I get the frustration, but the second you retain a lawyer, you're going down the rabbit hole which will cost you a lot more the win the battle while losing the war. Stay or go, the next lease is going to cover this.

 

[dbsb3233]

So, a little more information about the complex, personal opinion on the subject(which I have attempted to leave out thus far), and reiteration.

Who builds a luxury complex, charges 200-300 dollars more on average for the apartment and 50-75 dollars more on average for the garage monthly than the local area, and not have what should be considered basic amenities in 2022 and future proof it? What kind of foresight do you have? $$$ signs are all that they see and just because you slap thin granite countertops on cheap plywood doesn't mean the phrase of you can put lipstick on a pig isn't applicable... So, when most apartments in my area are 800-900 per month and another 50-60 dollars for a garage and you are paying a grand total 1,325 instead, you expect certain things. Things in this case are not being seen. They are getting paid more than the market's value and my small charging cost should be easily covered. Now, I understand I did accept and sign a contract. But, once again, I was told the garage was mine and I could use it and the ports to charge my EV prior and after signing a contract and moving in. And just like an owner, if I was to leave early, they'd use the lease against me to their advantage and take my deposit and charge me more. Now the tables have turned, and I want to use the contract to my advantage, why am I the bad guy here? Now I get you use what you pay for, but I am not going to update THEIR complex on my dime to accommodate a request that has been made after an agreement was reached that is verifiable through other witnesses at the complex. It was one of the main points why I moved into this apartment.

Anyone ever see/hear John Mulaney Delta Airlines skit? You can find it on YT. I really feel like I am living that skit right now.

I think the "bad guy" perception comes mostly from how you responded in the initial exchange with them you detailed in the 1st post. You appeared to come out of the box as combative and threatening, while they seemed professional are reasonable. That kinda got you off on the wrong foot with the perception here.

But clearly there was some prior history there that led up to that. I absolutely agree that if the previous landlord assured you (and others) that it was OK to use an EVSE, but now the new landlord forbids it, you're kinda getting screwed. That's unfortunate, but it's also the product of not getting something in writing/email, since the lease doesn't really support it (or at least it's a gray area).

As for expecting them to bend because you're paying more than average market price, well, that may make you feel entitled to more leeway but that's about all it matters for - feelings. That isn't likely to affect the outcome. In fact it may make it worse, as it seems to have caused you to start off on a combative tone that will probably just make them dig in their heels.

You may be right that your above-market rent *should* warrant the perk of sucking down 400 kWh of electricity each month for an EV, but that won't make it happen. Sorry, but it's looking like you may have backed yourself into a corner here, and won't be happy there going forward. The landlord is probably feeling the same way.

 

[generaltso]

A little update.

My attorney is proceeding with the letter. In my state, there is a rule and I am no lawyer so I am going to butcher this, if a contract or lease is vague, the courts will side with the end user as it is the responsibility of the contract writer to be specific.

I went into JAG and spoke with a Major who said he couldn't give me too much help as its unethical to get a second opinion in legal matters. However, he stated that I have every right and my attorney is correct.

I will post some documents with the outcome that are a little more censored than they are at the moment after this settles but in the mean time I will keep you guys updated.

Will it cost you less for the attorney than it would cost you to just pay for the electricity? Even if you "win" and get free electricity for the remainder of your lease. You better believe that your new lease when it's time to renew will include specific language about charging (if they even allow you to renew at all).

 

[snowdoggie]

Well, to reiterate, I moved into, along with two other neighbors who also use the wall ports in their garage for various electrical items, my apartment with the permission of the original manager to charge my vehicle. The new manager comes in and says that it's now a no go. I don't feel wrong fighting this right now.

As a caveat to this all, I did look at other apartments in my area just in case I must move because of this. We are paying for our 'luxury' apartment about 30-40 dollars on average more for a garage and about 200-300 more for the apartment.

Change of management happens, when it does it goes by what is written down in the contract.
You are alleging the contract is vague enough to allow you to use it for charging, what is stopping them from just turning off the power to that plug. You are heading for a lose lose and possibly eviction (Assuming that is what you are aiming for since you started this thread under that), no doubt the fees will be passed to other tenants and yourself as a rate increase, and I am sure the PM will make sure everyone in the complex know you are the cause of it, over what is essentially 10-20$ electric bill that you can pay/negotiate

Also if/when you move/evicted guess what you need references, the new property owners/managers want references on tenants including rent history. Do you think your current Property Manager will give you a glowing review? Just like a job, don't burn your bridges.

There is a reason why the previous PM was replaced, they were too laxed and are most likely losing money for the owner so the owner changed the manager, do you think the new management will continue things as normal, especially things that are losing them money?

 

[ctenidae]

Who builds a luxury complex, charges 200-300 dollars more on average for the apartment and 50-75 dollars more on average for the garage monthly than the local area, and not have what should be considered basic amenities in 2022 and future proof it?

Better question is, who would rent in a luxury complex, pay 200-300 dollars more on average for the apartment and 50-75 dollars more on average for the garage monthly than the local area, and not have what should be considered basic amenities in 2022 and future proofing?

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I want to use the contract to my advantage, why am I the bad guy here

You’re not. There are no bad guys here. This is why I recommended a pragmatic approach. Do you want to stay there? If so, work out an agreement and move on. Help drag them into the 21st century by offering some of the metering like solutions mentioned by @dtbaker61.

If not, look for a new place and ask the landlords and property management company to release you from your lease. Win-Win, they get rid of their perceived problem and you get out of there. your blood pressure will go down a lot.

It’s a matter of basic finances, what you might gain in cost free L1 charging you lose in attorney fees many times over. Plus, there may be legal issues outside of the lease relating to this. I’m not licensed to practice law in Nebraska so I’ll leave it at that. But next time, get such agreements in writing, even if it’s just a series of emails.

 

[RWG]

My opinion:

I have lots of business leases, and landlords. Relationships matter and so does stuff in writing. If you cannot produce an email, or document or get corroboration from a property manager regarding your version of the "deal" , you do not have any leverage. The disagreement will be settled by the language of the lease contract and it seems like they have the upper hand. Other issues with the leased property do not matter in this debate unless you have a property manager that will be your advocate. ( This is where relationships matter.)

Early comments about getting a sub meter and paying your fair share seem reasonable to me. Suggesting this is just a "trickle charge" is not a valid argument. When you plug it in, at 120v, it is going to pull as much as it can and it is not a "trickle".

Regarding a sub meter, I do not know what that really is, I have never seen one for a 120v circuit.

Regarding a rent increase, to cover the costs, I suggest a quick calculation, to determine the average costs and then make an offer. i.e. 120v @ 10 amps = 1.2 KW per hour. 1.2KW x .06 x 12 hrs. = $.86.

Round it up to $1 per day and that's $30/month. Of course my calc is just an example estimate. Actual power and costs could vary dramatically.

Another way to look at it;

You said you lived 10 miles from work. Round trip, that is 20 miles, or about 5k miles per year. . So a 3 miles per KW that is 6.6 KW per day and at $.06 per KW that is about $.40 per day.

However, if you are an average driver @ 12,000 miles per year, @ 3 miles per KW, your annual KW usage would be about 4000 KW and your average annual cost , @ $.06/KW, would be about $240. With an ICE vehicle, gas at the pump would be 2 or 3 times as much. Also, annual 4,000KW is 10.9 KW per day and with 12 hours plug in time, that is .9 KW per hour and that is about 8 amps on a 120v circuit.This means you could probably drive the vehicle for a year, never use a 240v ESVE, just the 120v unit and get by.

Do the math, make a deal. $240/12 equals $20 per month or negotiate a deal and have the electric charges included in your monthly garage rental. Maybe offer an extra $10/month on the garage rental, maybe they will take it. Just a thought . . . . . .

Good luck.

PS: I hope my math is correct, I did this rather quickly.

 

[AKgrampy]

You’re not. There are no bad guys here. This is why I recommended a pragmatic approach. Do you want to stay there? If so, work out an agreement and move on. Help drag them into the 21st century by offering some of the metering like solutions mentioned by @dtbaker61.

If not, look for a new place and ask the landlords and property management company to release you from your lease. Win-Win, they get rid of their perceived problem and you get out of there. your blood pressure will go down a lot.

It’s a matter of basic finances, what you might gain in cost free L1 charging you lose in attorney fees many times over. Plus, there may be legal issues outside of the lease relating to this. I’m not licensed to practice law in Nebraska so I’ll leave it at that. But next time, get such agreements in writing, even if it’s just a series of emails.

He is in the process of buying a house. At least I assume so as he is waiting for VA approval. That makes this whole exercise a bit ridiculous but still interested in the results. Spend hundreds on lawyers until he moves out versus a few dollars to satisfy management.

 

[khbkhb]

While I feel your pain, I have to agree with those that are suggesting the accommodation suggestions seem not unreasonable. Since you already plan to move on, I would try convincing them to accept what the MachE reports as usage. Admittedly, they will probably be unhappy because the FordPass app reports time, not KwH but a little arithmetic can result in a reasonable approximation.

Obviously, metering the garage usage would be their optimal option but expecting you to pay for that infrastructure upgrade does seem unreasonable.

Given that your daily commute is only 20mi, if you did have to charge at EV fast charger, that would only be once a week or even less .. which would be easier in my book than paying a lawyer to fight the uphill battle.

Or since it is only 120v 15amps, talk to folks at work. I used to charge a Sparrow sometimes off a loading dock access or running a heavy duty extension cord out a window.

 

[Mach1E]

You’re not. There are no bad guys here.

Agree and disagree……..

In the dispute, there are no bad guys in the dispute, just a disagreement.

Now how they ACT in the dispute……. Management seems to be kind, professional and looking for reasonable solutions.

OP went the other route.

Unfortunately, history is in the OPs favor. We have been taught as a society that you are rewarded for throwing a tantrum.

 

[Mach1E]

At the end of the day, all tenants pay for what they are/will be using. Landlords simply pass the cost onto their tenants. I own two rental properties and that is reality.

With that being said, contracts adjust to things on the ground so to speak. I would guess that very few contracts had envisioned EV's at their complex and they will now need to adjust to these situations that they had not thought about.

The Landlord will win the war but may lose the battle on this one. If I were the landlord on this one, I would adjust all future contracts/lease agreements with exact wording to the situation and chalk this one off to a "learning experience". After all, $30 per month (that is just a guess) is not going to break the bank on either side but it wouldn't be advised for either party to take this to court.

Once again, contracts usually have an expiration date and that is the time for the shoe to drop. I would bet that this is one of thousands of situations that are happening or soon to happen within the next few years.

Btw, my two rentals are simple. The tenant pays for all of their utilities currently and I am good. If they choose to plug in an appliance that spins the meter, I say go for it.

Holy crap we agree!

If I were the landlord, since the OP won’t accept either reasonable offer, I would just let it go…….. until lease renewal.

Then update next years lease to account for electric car charging.

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