Preconditioning efficiency

[Elmst-e]

I understand the concept of preconditioning the battery to improve miles per kWh. I’m wondering if the savings in kWh while driving is offset by the kWh used to precondition. In other words, is the savings only in mileage and not kWh for any given distance traveled? Is there any true savings involved?

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[redgrandam]

Not if you are using battery power to achieve this. If you are plugged in and program the departure then it should keep the battery topped up.
If you are using the battery to warm itself it will use up more than you will recover by warming it.

preconditioning for charging though can help with long term battery health, although the car should keep it to safe speeds for the temperatures.

 

[Elmst-e]

Not if you are using battery power to achieve this. If you are plugged in and program the departure then it should keep the battery topped up.
If you are using the battery to warm itself it will use up more than you will recover by warming it.

preconditioning for charging though can help with long term battery health, although the car should keep it to safe speeds for the temperatures.

I am thinking about plugging in at home to precondition. Do the kWh used in this case offset the savings while driving? Hope my question makes sense

 

[generaltso]

I am thinking about plugging in at home to precondition. Do the kWh used in this case offset the savings while driving? Hope my question makes sense

Preconditioning the battery is not for saving money. It’s for getting the maximum range for when you need it.

 

[Elmst-e]

Preconditioning the battery is not for saving money. It’s for getting the maximum range for when you need it.

So in other words, no real $ savings, no more miles per kWh, only more miles on the trip with kWh consumed at the house rather than from the battery.

 

[RickMachE]

So in other words, no real $ savings, no more miles per kWh, only more miles on the trip with kWh consumed at the house rather than from the battery.

Not correct.

By preconditioning you get more miles per kWh for the first part of your first leg, i.e. more range. When you go to fill up on the road, you're paying several times the rate to charge. Therefore, preconditioning at home does save you a bit assuming the trip is long enough. I would never do it for say a 10 mile commute.

 

[65MustangBoy]

When travelling, and I choose a charger as a destination, how do I confirm if the battery is really be preconditioned for the charger?

 

[Mach-Lee]

When travelling, and I choose a charger as a destination, how do I confirm if the battery is really be preconditioned for the charger?

If you see the charger icon in the instrument cluster with the distance remaining it will precondition. If it’s a flag instead of a charger, it won’t work.

Anything more requires an OBD scan tool.

 

[Shayne]

I am thinking about plugging in at home to precondition. Do the kWh used in this case offset the savings while driving? Hope my question makes sense

Departure schedules. It runs at most for about an hour to heat the battery and 30 minutes for the cab. The cab is for you and we will let you determine that. 1 hour with a 10 KW heater (max) would be 10 KWh. At $0.17/KW it is $1.70. It is easier on your vehicle to do this and I have seen the GOM grow by 40 miles doing it. For a couple of bucks I will continue to do it when the temps are below 20F. Warming up your machinery prior to use is not just an EV thing. Will you plug in the block heater in your ICE when cold? About the same just not as hi-tech.

 

[Shayne]

If you see the charger icon in the instrument cluster with the distance remaining it will precondition. If it’s a flag instead of a charger, it won’t work.

Anything more requires an OBD scan tool.

With the original small heater at -20C and the HVAC on do you really think it would be doing much for the batteries? How exactly would that work? The heater is too small for us to believe anything is done for the batteries when it gets to a certain temp. Turn your HVAC off is the best on route conditioning we have. Sit with the HVAC on when it cold gates charging is the other option. There is a reason they put a bigger heater in newer models. Of course that was not designed to be backwards compatible. Similar to the more durable tesla charging port which most likely will also not be backwards compatible.

 

[Murse-In-Airy]

With the original small heater at -20C and the HVAC on do you really think it would be doing much for the batteries? How exactly would that work? The heater is too small for us to believe anything is done for the batteries when it gets to a certain temp. Turn your HVAC off is the best on route conditioning we have. Sit with the HVAC on when it cold gates charging is the other option. There is a reason they put a bigger heater in newer models. Of course that was not designed to be backwards compatible. Similar to the more durable tesla charging port which most likely will also not be backwards compatible.

I’ve tested this Shayne. And Mach-Lee did a write up too (which prompted my testing). Below 40°F, there isn’t much preconditioning going on at all if you have the cabin heat on. If you turn the cabin heat off, then you can watch the battery coolant inlet temp climb pretty quickly. The battery heats more slowly because of the thermal mass. My determination was that I’d rather have the cabin heat on for the last twenty minutes before charging, than to save 5 minutes at the charger.
Above 40°F, the preconditioning really kicks in and I’ve been able to achieve 162 KW speeds (though only for a short time of course) versus the 120-130 that I have become used to.

I still won’t be subscribing to Ford Navigation when my free trial expires. Even if I get an average 20KW improvement in speeds (30KW to start and 10KW near the end), over a 30 minute session, that’s 10KW more than if I didn’t precondition. If I have an average charge speed of 90KW, then I e saved a whole 6 minutes. But the energy spent over the 20 minute precondition will use 2 KWH of power so I actually have to charge an additional 2 KWH cutting the time savings to 5 minutes but adding expense. So the real benefit to preconditioning on the go just isn’t there for me when time, distance, and money are all taken into account.

But that’s not even the OP’s question.
Preconditioning at home uses more KWh from your home grid connection than it saves in driving. Preconditioning is for maximizing your range/efficiency, NOT for saving money. On a long drive it may allow you to burn 15 kWh of grid electricity to get another 30 miles further. This could be 10 kWh less you have to buy at a DCFC. So if your home electricity cost 10¢/kwh, and DCFC cost 50¢/kwh, you may save $3.50 preconditioning at home.

For any trip that doesn’t need maximum mileage, and doesn’t involve a DCFC stop, preconditioning the battery is just wasting money and electricity. (Though there may be long term battery health issues that a warmer, preconditioned battery lasts longer. But those results aren’t in yet).

 

[Shayne]

I’ve tested this Shayne. And Mach-Lee did a write up too (which prompted my testing). Below 40°F, there isn’t much preconditioning going on at all if you have the cabin heat on. If you turn the cabin heat off, then you can watch the battery coolant inlet temp climb pretty quickly. The battery heats more slowly because of the thermal mass. My determination was that I’d rather have the cabin heat on for the last twenty minutes before charging, than to save 5 minutes at the charger.
Above 40°F, the preconditioning really kicks in and I’ve been able to achieve 162 KW speeds (though only for a short time of course) versus the 120-130 that I have become used to.

I still won’t be subscribing to Ford Navigation when my free trial expires. Even if I get an average 20KW improvement in speeds (30KW to start and 10KW near the end), over a 30 minute session, that’s 10KW more than if I didn’t precondition. If I have an average charge speed of 90KW, then I e saved a whole 6 minutes. But the energy spent over the 20 minute precondition will use 2 KWH of power so I actually have to charge an additional 2 KWH cutting the time savings to 5 minutes but adding expense. So the real benefit to preconditioning on the go just isn’t there for me when time, distance, and money are all taken into account.

But that’s not even the OP’s question.
Preconditioning at home uses more KWh from your home grid connection than it saves in driving. Preconditioning is for maximizing your range/efficiency, NOT for saving money. On a long drive it may allow you to burn 15 kWh of grid electricity to get another 30 miles further. This could be 10 kWh less you have to buy at a DCFC. So if your home electricity cost 10¢/kwh, and DCFC cost 50¢/kwh, you may save $3.50 preconditioning at home.

For any trip that doesn’t need maximum mileage, and doesn’t involve a DCFC stop, preconditioning the battery is just wasting money and electricity. (Though there may be long term battery health issues that a warmer, preconditioned battery lasts longer. But those results aren’t in yet).

You can actually hear the recirc pump kick in as soon as you shut down the HVAC and watch it climb from there with the OBD. Saw it myself back then also on carscanner with a graph that showed the condition with and without HVAC on. No big deal. I also have no need for on route preconditioning and is nav a subscription? I mostly charge from home and have only DCFC a couple dozen times so far. It is HVAC on for me also. Two independent heaters with two independent jobs would be nice. Powertrain heating separate from cabin would be an idea. We just love new tech and kind of threw our hats in the ring on this one Cars working good for me right now ..... touching wood.

I like the drive and performance increases I get from preconditioning from home and it can not hurt warming it up prior to hitting the highway for the normal commute. I will continue to waste the money and set up a departure schedule.

 

[Maquis]

For any trip that doesn’t need maximum mileage, and doesn’t involve a DCFC stop, preconditioning the battery is just wasting money and electricity. (Though there may be long term battery health issues that a warmer, preconditioned battery lasts longer. But those results aren’t in yet).

This sums up everything you need to know about preconditioning efficiency perfectly.

 

[TheVirtualTim]

I haven't carefully measured the amount of energy used vs. saved. My "sense" is that it's probably around 20% -- but also that probably depends on outside temperature.

When I was driving in around 20°F temps and DID NOT pre-condition the car was getting something like 2.2 miles/kWh. When I did pre-condition the car was getting something like 2.7 miles/kWh.

But the main point ... is that I was doing a road-trip and would need multiple charging stops per day. When you pre-condition, the power is coming from the grid -- not the battery. You lave with a fully charged (or at least as charged to the amount you set in your car) and it isn't using battery power to run the battery pack heaters -- thereby reducing your range.

Pre-conditioning means you will hopefully not need to worry about range.

 

[VindictivePantz]

I apologize for the terrible picture, and apologize if this has been confirmed elsewhere, but it looks like preconditioning by navigating to a charge station is only available if an active Ford NAV subscription is enabled.

I need to try to reproduce it in the next few days (and get a better picture.) Basically, I went into Ford NAV, clicked Search, found a charger, clicked on it, and received this message.

(I also noticed that sometime in the past few weeks, they removed the $5/month option for Ford NAV, at least for me.)

It's a shame we cannot get preconditioning like the other manufacturers have. Maybe they'll open the API for Google/Apple, etc. someday. (FWIW, my subscription expired not too long ago, but it was missing one charger that's been around for at least 2 years, so the accuracy and frequency of updates is in question as well.)

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