Range and efficiency of the competition

[macchiaz-o]

I did some research on the competitors' efficiencies for a reply to a different post. Since this might be useful to someone comparing Mach-E to its competition, I'm posting it again here as its own topic. I've added in the range (in U.S. miles) for each vehicle, too.

These are the 35 new model electric cars currently reported at the Department of Energy's fueleconomy.gov site. Some cars are listed multiple times -- this is due to different trim options such as wheels, which impact their efficiency scores.

The average efficiency shown by their big bold Combined MPGe number is 3.2 miles per kilowatt hour, with an average range of 232 miles. If I keep only the most energy efficient option for each of the duplicative vehicles like Tesla Model 3, then the average efficiency is still 3.2 mi/kWh, but range drops down to 196 miles.

Vehicle	mi/kWh​	Range​
2019 Audi e-tron	2.2​	204​
2020 BYD e6	2.1​	187​
2019 BMW I3 BEV (120 Amp-hour battery)	3.3​	153​
2019 BMW I3s BEV (120 Amp-hour battery)	3.3​	153​
2020 Chevy Bolt (BEV)	3.4​	259​
2019 Fiat 500e	3.3​	84​
2019 Honda Clarity (Battery Electric Vehicle)	3.3​	89​
2020 Hyundai Ioniq Electric	4.0​	170​
2020 Hundai Kona EV	3.7​	258​
2020 Jaguar I-Pace (BEV)	2.3​	234​
2019 Kia Niro Electric	3.3​	239​
2020 Kia Soul Electric	3.3​	243​
2019 Mercedes Smart EQ Fortwo Electric Drive Coupe	3.2​	58​
2019 Mercedes Smart EQ Fortwo Electric Drive Convertible	3.0​	57​
2019 Nissan Leaf (40 kW-hr battery pack)	3.3​	150​
2019 Nissan Leaf (62 kW-hr battery pack)	3.2​	226​
2019 Nissan Leaf SV/SL (62 kW-hr battery pack)	3.1​	215​
2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo	2.0​	201​
2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range	3.8​	330​
2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD	3.6​	322​
2020 Tesla Model 3 Mid Range	3.7​	264​
2020 Tesla Model 3 Standard Range	3.8​	220​
2020 Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus	4.2​	250​
2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD P18	3.6​	322​
2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD P19	3.4​	304​
2020 Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD P20	3.3​	299​
2020 Tesla Model S Long Range	3.3​	373​
2020 Tesla Model S P19	3.1​	348​
2020 Tesla Model S P21	2.9​	326​
2020 Tesla Model S Standard Range	3.2​	287​
2020 Tesla Model X Long Range	2.9​	328​
2020 Tesla Model X P20	2.6​	305​
2020 Tesla Model X P22	2.3​	272​
2020 Tesla Model X Standard Range	3.0​	258​
2020 VW e-Golf	3.3​	123​

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[silverelan]

As much as we geek out on efficiency of mi/kWh hour, consumers really just care about range, where to charge it and how long it takes.

I'm a bit worried Tesla's speculated 100kWh pack in the Model 3/Y will just make the range of everything else look amateurish. Even a 320+ mile California Rt.1 variant would just pale in comparison to a Y with 400 miles. That's not even taking into account the 250kW charging capability.

 

[macchiaz-o]

Yeah I agree. Efficiency and range are both factors for me, but mixed in with a bunch of other requirements and wants.

 

[silverelan]

Yeah I agree. Efficiency and range are both factors for me, but mixed in with a bunch of other requirements and wants.

The paper specs of Mustang Mach-E and Tesla Model Y are practically on par and while charging (speed, price, availability) are on Tesla's side, the exterior/interior of the Mach-E just are next level compared to Tesla's. I saw this video today of a Model Y and its nose just reinforced my belief that the Y is not attractive.

That being said, with 400 mile range at the same MSRP, I'm buying the Tesla.

 

[macchiaz-o]

The 400 mile range at a similar price point would be a huge nod in Tesla's favor, if that happens. But yes I agree with you, the 3 (and Y?) aren't very attractive inside or out.

I think I'd enjoy driving the Tesla Model 3... In fact I know this sounds completely ridiculous, but I wafered between the Fiesta (my current car) and the Model S back in 2013. But for a number of reasons, I continue to wait for a better alternative. Probably my biggest issues with Tesla to date are: misleading communications/marketing to their drivers (e.g. "Autopilot" and "FSD"), which puts other humans at risk, no support for Android Auto, high cost of maintenance/service, proprietary charging interface (in North America), unkept future promises, and high risk of bankruptcy.

I got really interested in the Hyundai Ioniq (and then later the Niro EV, Kona EV, and upcoming Soul EV). I love their longer factory warranties and the unlimited miles/time defect warranty for Hyundai batteries. My main issue with all of them is that they're only available in the ZEV states, and even then not in large numbers. If I buy one in California and drive it here, I have doubts about getting reasonably good service from the dealerships in this area for those cars.

 

[J Duce]

Check out the below link from a [Banned Site] thread. Someone was sharp enough to notice the information on the screen behind the steering wheel. It reads 407 KM range on remain 88% battery charge. If my math is correct, 407 KM translates to 253 miles. 253 miles is 88% of 287 miles (253 divided by .88). The car shown is supposedly the First Edition. Ford published estimated that range of 270 miles. If the numbers on the prototype is correct, i am hoping Ford is really conservative about their stated range. Fingers crossed.

https://www.[Banned Site].com/threads/ford-mustang-mach-e-launch-photos-from-norway.232/

Any thoughts from the more technically savvy EV watchers? Looking forward to what you gleaned from this.

 

[larryjwhite]

Check out the below link from a [Reported to Moderators] thread. Someone was sharp enough to notice the information on the screen behind the steering wheel. It reads 407 KM range on remain 88% battery charge. If my math is correct, 407 KM translates to 253 miles. 253 miles is 88% of 287 miles (253 divided by .88). The car shown is supposedly the First Edition. Ford published estimated that range of 270 miles. If the numbers on the prototype is correct, i am hoping Ford is really conservative about their stated range. Fingers crossed.

https://www.[Reported to Moderators].com/threads/ford-mustang-mach-e-launch-photos-from-norway.232/

Any thoughts from the more technically savvy EV watchers? Looking forward to what you gleaned from this.

Without knowing what the driving conditions were those numbers aren't really a big help. If they were driving at 50 MPH those numbers could still mean the EPA range might still be 270 miles. If they were driving at 80 MPH, those numbers would be great.

 

[J Duce]

Without knowing what the driving conditions were those numbers aren't really a big help. If they were driving at 50 MPH those numbers could still mean the EPA range might still be 270 miles. If they were driving at 80 MPH, those numbers would be great.

Thanks for the feedback. I figured how hard the car is driven along with environmental conditions (colder temperature) would impact the real world range. A coworker of mine bought a first year Tesla S and acknowledged that his range was far below the standard published because he pushed the car hard. So I expect that will be the case for the EV (and even with ICE cars).

 

[cometguy]

You left out the Polestar 2 from your list. I doubt that those range numbers you listed are all determined "equally", so there is surely a lot of error/uncertainty built in there. The Taycan will not be as poor as 201 miles, for example -- especially the Taycan 4S and the cheaper variants of the Taycan (which are the versions of the Taycan that 95% of Taycan buyers will purchase).

I also think that the typical BEV buyer will never need more than 150-200 miles of range, because most BEV buyers won't ever drive on long road trips with their BEV (most will not drive more than 100 miles from home with their BEVs, so that 200 miles is fine for 99% of BEV usage), and most BEV owners will charge at home nightly or every other night to be mostly near a full charge. Range is thus a relatively minor point (for BEVs with maximum range above 200 miles, anyway), realistically speaking, for actual BEV buyers/owners; it's only non-BEV owners/drivers who don't grasp the range thing who will have that anxiety that prevents them from buying BEVs.

We are at least a decade away from good public-charging infrastructure to approach anything like the proliferation of gas stations today, and that is why BEVs will be mostly local-commuting vehicles for the next decade; once you accept that fact, range anxiety is a non-issue, as BEV owners driving long distances will mostly fly or take an ICEV/PHEV for those long drives out-of-town. Only about 5% of BEV drivers will brave the public-charging system on long-distance trips for the time-being.

 

[macchiaz-o]

Polestar 2 isn't listed at fueleconomy.gov, yet. Also, it's not in production until 2020.

I mostly agree about the range not being hugely important, because most of my driving is routine in-town stuff and commuting.

It does matter, though. A vehicle with a 300 mile range would let me make a day trip to Tucson and back without refueling, while a range of 230 would require stops at one or more charging stations along the route. And that's okay -- there are stations along that route for me to use.

Plenty of other day trips starting from central Arizona are simply not possible in a BEV with the current infrastructure and range limitations. Having the added range gives us more freedom of mobility, while we wait for charging infrastructure to enormously expand.

 

[JesterZ]

are other folks here also considering the Volvo XC40 Recharge and BMW iX3 as the competition to the Mach-E and model Y? Those are the EVs I was expecting to be choosing from in 2020-21, before the mach-E reveal came along.

 

[silverelan]

are other folks here also considering the Volvo XC40 Recharge and BMW iX3 as the competition to the Mach-E and model Y? Those are the EVs I was expecting to be choosing from in 2020-21, before the mach-E reveal came along.

In contention with the Mach-E are the VW ID.4 and Hyundai/KIA CUV. They're both supposed to have AWD, 300ish miles and be at the same price point or cheaper.

There's a danger the Model Y will be released in 2020 with a 400mi range and then every other OEM's EV will be obsolete before they're for sale.

 

[macchiaz-o]

considering the Volvo XC40 Recharge

Speaking of the XC40, this has got to be the most chaotic assembly line video I've seen so far, for a recent model vehicle:

At the other end of the spectrum might be the Porsche Taycan, but I suspect Porsche set out to make that factory tour look as prestigious/perfect as possible. Plus it's a lower volume production.

 

[cometguy]

are other folks here also considering the Volvo XC40 Recharge and BMW iX3 as the competition to the Mach-E and model Y? Those are the EVs I was expecting to be choosing from in 2020-21, before the mach-E reveal came along.

I bought my first plug-in electric vehicle (a PHEV) last year and love it. I'm not ready for a BEV yet, and didn't think I would be ready for a long time, but the new vehicles coming out in droves now in 2020 and 2021 have changed my thinking on this. I may end up in a BEV as soon as 2021 (previously, I'd figured no way until 2023 or later). I am enthusiastically watching all the new PHEVs and BEVs coming out now -- seems like at least one or two new vehicles being announced every month.

My wife wants a RAV4 to replace her Highlander, and we were planning to get a RAV4 Hybrid now in 2020 -- until we saw the RAV4 Prime (PHEV) that will be out this coming summer, with 39 miles of all-electric range, full $7500 federal tax credit (plus we get $1000 state rebate for PHEVs), with a 50% increase in horsepower and torque over the "mild" hybrid version. We will keep at least one PHEV or ICEV when we get a BEV, for those long-distance trips, as I don't want to fool with public charging in their inferior, infancy stages now -- no patience for that.

As a decades-long Volvo owner (numerous wagons), I'm following what Volvo is doing; their PHEVs suck (poor technology, poor range), but I'm very interested in their forthcoming BEVs. The XC40 BEV looks interesting, but I'm more focussed on the Polestar 2 hatchback sedan (and forthcoming Polestar 3 SUV). I doubt I'll be serious about buying a Mach-E, but it does interest me, and I'll be doing a test-drive of one when they are available in local dealerships for that purpose. The VW BEVs interest me a lot because they should be resonably priced and practical. I'm personally more interested in crossovers/wagons than large SUVs. The Model Y will be interesting, but I personally don't like the problems that Tesla models have, and don't feel that they are worth the prices charged. I'm more likely to spend money on a Macan BEV or PHEV (which should be in the $60k-$75k range in a couple of years when introduced). The Taycan Cross Turismo interests me greatly, but its hefty price ($100k+) will probably move it out of my likely purchase range.

What's different now is that there are cool-looking and "normal"-looking vehicles coming out as BEVs. Before, we just had Tesla and then the small, "nerdy" vehicles (BMW i3; Chevy Bolt; Nissan Leaf; etc.) that most people wouldn't want to even consider based on looks alone. Now we are getting a large variety of sedans, crossovers and small SUVs, and hopefully wagons, that actually look good. Now I'm paying attention.

 

[Billyk24]

Ford has a Cmax Engeri (like I do) -a plug in hybrid that has a usable 5.6kWh battery pack. It is EPA rated for 20 miles of EV range. That comes out ot 3.57 miles per kW. I would think the Mach E would beat such miles per kW rating. Some of us can put up much larger miles per kW than the EPA rates it: