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J Duce

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All, my Route 1 went "to plant" yesterday, and today I have a window sticker. Of significant interest is that it doesn't say "do not ship", and it HAS the section on fuel economy and range (305mi) filled in. It not as good as I hoped the Aero wheels would give it, but that is probably due to Ford's conservative fudge factor on the dyno.

rt1_mileage.png
Does anyone know what the date at the very bottom of the window sticker means. Mine shows 12/12/2020. Would this be the delivery date or maybe the shipping date. My dealer advised it is supposed to be in Montreal on Dec 15 for me.

355B964A-5760-43B5-9243-528C81EDF84A.png
I think it is the date that you are viewing the sticker. I noticed that and it always is the day that you view it.
 

Shayne

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Yes, and that form was an early one just for emissions, not mileage - that thread's initial premise has been debunked.
Are you saying another set of numbers is around for efficiency (mileage)? A link to those would be great; so I understand. I was just stating current official facts. I think we should know as they start to come out and I am definitely on your side that the hear say is right. Not required; but rooting for it.
 
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Are you saying another set of numbers is around for efficiency (mileage)? A link to those would be great; so I understand. I was just stating current official facts. I think we should know as they start to come out and I am definitely on your side that the hear say is right. Not required; but rooting for it.
Yes, that is what I am relaying from the insiders (that actually know what's going on). Ford can't just "make up" better numbers to feed to the EPA, but they can submit more conservative ones. In order to improve the .7 fudge factor Ford would have to submit detailed testing documentation.
 

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I'm not sure this is correct but what I did was divide the kWhr used by the % Battery remaining. But since I always had the "Hill Reserve" on I then divided that value by the End % Charge. Using this I got
48.01 kW ± 2.30 for the first value and
54.74 Kw ± 2.64 for the second value.
Well the format is distance traveled % by kWh used for real world,
For EPA it’s the same however with known numbers ..

For example; the Mach E 4X .. 270 % 88kWh usable capacity = 3.06 miles per-kWh
And that post with 349 mil .. 349 % 88kWh = 3.96 miles per-kWh ..

note that some systems inflate their miles per-kWh if costing downhill and or drafting etc...

BTW did GM not take away the “Hill Reserved” and cap max SoC to 95% for your car?
Yes, GM did take away the "Hill Reserve" and I thought the cap was set at 90% SoC

My calculations were based on my spreadsheet that has just about everything tracked that is available from the display and from the App. I used the Energy Used from the display and the pre and post % Battery Level.
 

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Yes, that is what I am relaying from the insiders (that actually know what's going on). Ford can't just "make up" better numbers to feed to the EPA, but they can submit more conservative ones. In order to improve the .7 fudge factor Ford would have to submit detailed testing documentation.
There was no fudge in a constant until recently. Based on Tesla's 0.75 scalar a lot can be done at the EPA. Once constants become variables you take the engineers and scientists out of it and it can become a bit political. A lot of past EV performance is based on a 0.7 yardstick. Comparing with that and Ford's official submitted numbers I am still looking forward to the vehicle; anything else is bonus.
 
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There was no fudge in a constant until recently. Based on Tesla's 0.75 scalar a lot can be done at the EPA. Once constants become variables you take the engineers and scientists out of it and it can become a bit political. A lot of past EV performance is based on a 0.7 yardstick. Comparing with that and Ford's official submitted numbers I am still looking forward to the vehicle; anything else is bonus.
Tesla's .74 came from them running 3 more cycle tests, not making something up. Unless Ford ran those additional tests, they cannot substitute their own number for the .7 factor. If Ford ran those tests, then it is legitimate. If they did not, EPA would use .7 - Ford cannot just give them a different number "just because".
 

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Has anyone seen an articles regarding how the Route 1 just kicked the ID.4's butt for efficiency?
1607911862773.png

1607911925424.png

...hmm me neither!
305 - ID.4 1st (RWD)
UDDS 384.75 mi
Hyw 334.1 mi
0.7(0.55*384.75+0.45*334.1)=253 miles on 86.5 kwh wall charge
Stated range 250 mi
Good to see VW not fudging. 250/86.5 * 33.7 = 97 MPGe.
Using current MME numbers and 0.7 to compare.
The MME x (grouped with route 1) is 288 mi on 101.5 kwh wall charge (96 MPGe) almost the same efficiency and carrying a lot more battery weight around.
Not a butt kicking but comparable and with the bigger battery and longer range of the MMEx I would say the Mustang would be my better buy. Most likely would come down to range vs sticker price. Batteries cost. The mustang has a large buffer and degradation may be feed back? Id.4 77 kwh of usable energy (82 kwh gross) has a 5 kwh buffer. MME 88 kwh of usable energy (102 kwh gross) has a 14 kwh buffer or 3 times the reserve. The Ford MMEx Premium is the better vehicle from my perspective but looks like it costs a few 1000 more. Really tight.
 

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Tesla's .74 came from them running 3 more cycle tests, not making something up. Unless Ford ran those additional tests, they cannot substitute their own number for the .7 factor. If Ford ran those tests, then it is legitimate. If they did not, EPA would use .7 - Ford cannot just give them a different number "just because".
Understand and sharping your pencil and running a few more cycles at the discretion of an EPA administrator just to squeeze a few more ounces to vary the constant is not what I call good engineering practice. There is enough variables in real world range for this new tech that constants do not need to vary. If the testing does not reflect EV's then change the test, for all, not the constants.
 

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Tesla's .74 came from them running 3 more cycle tests, not making something up. Unless Ford ran those additional tests, they cannot substitute their own number for the .7 factor. If Ford ran those tests, then it is legitimate. If they did not, EPA would use .7 - Ford cannot just give them a different number "just because".
.7 vs .74 is just an engineering exercise, but using it is a cultural decision. Tesla leans more toward squeezing out a max number, Ford is targeting a more realistic number, hoping people won't blindly buy based on what is a larger, but likely unachievable, number. Looks like Porsche is doing the same with Taycan.
 

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For the people with VIN's, did Ford proactively tell you the VIN or did you have to call your dealer?
 

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For the people with VIN's, did Ford proactively tell you the VIN or did you have to call your dealer?
You'll need to contact your dealer - if that isn't an option or isn't very easy, some folks have had luck contacting Ford directly and retrieving theirs (will need Order and Dealer info when contacting Ford directly).
 

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You'll need to contact your dealer - if that isn't an option or isn't very easy, some folks have had luck contacting Ford directly and retrieving theirs (will need Order and Dealer info when contacting Ford directly).
Thank you. Roughly how many days before scheduled production do you get a VIN? My apologies for hijacking this thread
 

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Thank you. Roughly how many days before scheduled production do you get a VIN? My apologies for hijacking this thread
Not sure I have an answer there - I think I got my VIN back at the end of October, once Ford sent me an e-mail with a Build week. So generally I'd guess about a month or so before your build you should have a VIN available.
 

ChasingCoral

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Thank you. Roughly how many days before scheduled production do you get a VIN? My apologies for hijacking this thread
You should be able to get a VIN as soon as your car is scheduled. Folks have been getting scheduled about 2-3 months out. September orders are now getting late February build weeks.
 



 









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