Sadly Saying Goodbye

[mkhuffman]

My last MME DCFC session:

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[tuminatr]

I will likely end up with a Rivian R1T if business tax incentives stay the same as this year.

 

[RandallOfLegend]

My last MME DCFC session:

How did you gather that data? That's super cool.

 

[Tampamike]

i generally used EA, the most i've ever done on a sustained basis was one time at around mid-60's kwh, so that matches exactly with what you're saying

frankly the most common speed out of the dozen or so times i used L3 charging was 40-50 kwh (around 75% of my experiences)

many of my charging sessions are in the winter when it is cold, i know about battery preconditioning for L3 but it didn't even exist back then. i've asked previously on this forum and many people experience similar speeds, everyone chalks it up to temp and/or the EA chargers being derated

point is theoretical charging speeds don't matter if you can't get anywhere near them because of A/B/C/D real-world reasons outside of your control... i now know to leave 1-1.5h for charging and to ignore the 30-minute marketing from ford

Yeah, like @dbsb3233 said, either you’re plugging into bad chargers often or something is wrong with your car. I’ve charged at many EA stations over the last 4 years in two different MME’s. My typical charge time is 30-35 minutes with a cutoff at 80%. I always watch the charger after plug-in to see what it starts at. If I only see 40kw, then I know that the charger is derated and I’ll switch to another one if there’s one open. Even when the charge rate is only 50kw, it still should only take about an hour to get to 80% - not an hour and a half.

 

[flapjake314]

Granted, more would have been if I just stayed on a derated charger rather than trying a different one at the station.

i'll say this has generally added to my overall poor experience with public L3 charging and the timings i quote.

i do actually try and switch chargers. i get there, get the car lined up, sometimes cord a bit short so i scoot a bit more, go through the EA spinning circles, wait 3-5 minutes, see that it's low speed. then i get out, move the car, try another one, scoot again, spinning circles, wait 3-5 minutes. i'm like 15 minutes in to my stop and i basically only charged 2% so far because i'm trying to figure out whether it can go faster.

virtually every time i still end up at the lower speeds. this is ignoring the times where the 2nd charger isn't working, the times i have to call EA (20-30 minutes on the phone), the times where there are no available first or second chargers, etc.

i went back into my posts, here was one of the threads i discussed the topic with others , seems pretty common experience re: my speeds (though your speeds are also represented). aside from temp another thing people told me was because i have a std battery so it's slower.

 

[flapjake314]

Even when the charge rate is only 50kw, it still should only take about an hour to get to 80% - not an hour and a half.

yeah the number displayed on the EA screen most commonly during the winter for me is like 41-47kwh, so sounds like we are taking the same timespans

 

[dbsb3233]

i'll say this has generally added to my overall poor experience with public L3 charging and the timings i quote.

i do actually try and switch chargers. i get there, get the car lined up, sometimes cord a bit short so i scoot a bit more, go through the EA spinning circles, wait 3-5 minutes, see that it's low speed. then i get out, move the car, try another one, scoot again, spinning circles, wait 3-5 minutes. i'm like 15 minutes in to my stop and i basically only charged 2% so far because i'm trying to figure out whether it can go faster.

virtually every time i still end up at the lower speeds. this is ignoring the times where the 2nd charger isn't working, the times i have to call EA (20-30 minutes on the phone), the times where there are no available first or second chargers, etc.

i went back into my posts, here was one of the threads i discussed the topic with others , seems pretty common experience re: my speeds (though your speeds are also represented). aside from temp another thing people told me was because i have a std battery so it's slower.

It sounds like you're unfortunately finding multiple chronically bad stations. That is more common in some areas than others. We drove up the east coast last year on a 6000 mile road trip from CO and did find a few bad stations, but not many. Hit & miss, I suppose.

My typical routine is to start the EA session and watch the charger to see the power level in the lower-left corner (can take 2 minutes for that screen to roll around). If I'm not getting over 100kw (assuming I'm below 40%), I slide over to another charger (if open). It's rare (1 in 20) that I have to stay stuck at a badly derated charger.

Usually I'll see it hit around 160kw on a good charger (but just for a few minutes), then level off around 120kw until 40%. Then it drifts down to around 80kw from 60% to 80%. Then it falls off a cliff to 40kw and less. That's ER battery. SR has a lower peak but I think the rest should stay similar. You should still be seeing >100kw at the start of most sessions (under 40% SOC) with the SR. (Rated for 115kw peak, IIRC.)

When it's below freezing out, subtract maybe 20-30% from all those numbers.

 

[flapjake314]

Usually I'll see it hit around 160kw on a good charger (but just for a few minutes), then level off around 120kw until 40%.

yeah wow. i've seen >100kwh one time in my life and it didn't last more than 2 minutes

i believe you that it could be just virtually all the chargers i used were lousy. but yeah i always try 2-4 chargers when possible, which itself adds a ton of time...

when it's 30kwh i know to call EA for a reset

 

[dbsb3233]

yeah wow. i've seen >100kwh one time in my life and it didn't last more than 2 minutes

i believe you that it could be just virtually all the chargers i used were lousy. but yeah i always try 2-4 chargers when possible, which itself adds a ton of time...

when it's 30kwh i know to call EA for a reset

31kw often means a bad temp sensor in the cable. That's what it usually limits to when it *thinks* the cable is too hot. That's a common problem at EA stations. Sometimes all it takes is just switching to the other cable. Works maybe 50% of the time for me. Can save the trouble of moving the car. But will all things EA, it's hit & miss.

I could be overstating just a bit what you should be getting with the SR battery, as I don't have direct experience with that. I haven't seen a typical charge curve for the SR. Maybe someone here has one and can post what it *should* be. After that first 2-minute surge, maybe 90-100kw is more normal up to 40%. But certainly not down to 40-50kw before 40%. That's a bad charger. The fact you have at least seen 100kw suggests it's the chargers and not the car.

 

[flapjake314]

That's a bad charger.

and this just brings me back to the point i was trying to make to OP in the first place.

it's great that the lucid can charge faster but assuming our conclusion for my situation is right that it was the charger, if i owned a lucid all this time it would have taken me longer not shorter (because the battery is larger but the lousy speed stays the same) to charge...

 

[music_cities]

I'm a Job 1 owner from 2021, and sadly said goodbye to my MME this week. Its the first electric I've owned and I will never go back.
Why did I sell? One word: range. We have a beautiful new granddaughter in Ohio and the MME takes two charging stops to get there. It adds an hour+ to our trip. I bought a used Lucid Air Touring (directly from the Lucid site) and its now a 1-stop trip.
All that being said, I loved my MME.
Standouts:
- Fast and fun - the torque and speed
- Looks great on the outside and hassle-free cool tech on the inside
- Its Electric (duh) - No oil changes, no worn brakes, no gas stops (charge at home), saving $$, helping our planet
- Dealer experience: Tom Mason Ford (in Reading, PA) was excellent to deal with thru the recalls and routine servicing
- THIS FORUM - I learned so much and received so much (needed) assistance and advice thru my MME journey
Would I recommend a Mach E? Without hesitation - unless you frequently travel longer distances and the range (I topped out @ 270m) is an issue.
Thanks all and enjoy your ride!

Congratulations on your new car. I wonder if you'll find that the faster charging curve is more important than the "range". What kind of bladder capacity do you and your wife have? Don't you have to stop twice for bathroom breaks anyways? If you can get a good charging speed while you're going pee, that would be better than trying to "hold it" in until your bladder is about to burst because your car has a big battery with a longer range.

Charging infrastructure continues to improve on all my trips, so I rarely care about range anymore. My bladder is not that big. Nowadays, I care about charging speed. Your Lucid Air has 900V architecture and can charge faster, at least in theory, but in reality it will depend on the quality of the chargers on your route and other factors.

 

[dbsb3233]

and this just brings me back to the point i was trying to make to OP in the first place.

it's great that the lucid can charge faster but assuming our conclusion for my situation is right that it was the charger, if i owned a lucid all this time it would have taken me longer not shorter (because the battery is larger but the lousy speed stays the same) to charge...

At the derated chargers you used, yes. No EV is going to charge well on derated chargers.

Actually the Lucid would still be a little better because it gets better mi/kWh, so you need fewer kWh to go the same distance, and wouldn't need to charge as long. But that's minor relative to your main point that some chargers are still bad. That's true. You just happened to run across an exceptionally high % of them, even for EA.

Have you tried any Superchargers yet? They're usually more dependable than EA. Both Ford and Lucid have access to them. My Gravity will have a native NACS port so I may find myself using SCs more than I do now, but I've used both as needed.

 

[Magnamover]

I may be saying good bye in the future also. Had a 7 hour road trip on Saturday that was not great. Had to be somewhere at 11am 3 hours away. I needed to charge at an Evolve station before hand to make sure I could get back to the same area later in the day. Northern NY is terrible for fast charger options. Took three different chargers to get it charging. On the way back home I stopped at a Telsa charger and plug and charge worked great the first time, faster charging and no issues. I charged for 35 minutes and saw a few Teslas come and go as they can charge so much faster. The S range is 410 vs 260 so that would also make a big difference. Hopefully Ford will up the charging rates on the next redesign.

 

[dbsb3233]

Congratulations on your new car. I wonder if you'll find that the faster charging curve is more important than the "range". What kind of bladder capacity do you and your wife have? Don't you have to stop twice for bathroom breaks anyways? If you can get a good charging speed while you're going pee, that would be better than trying to "hold it" in until your bladder is about to burst because your car has a big battery with a longer range.

Charging infrastructure continues to improve on all my trips, so I rarely care about range anymore. My bladder is not that big. Nowadays, I care about charging speed. Your Lucid Air has 900V architecture and can charge faster, at least in theory, but in reality it will depend on the quality of the chargers on your route and other factors.

As I often say, all charges are stops, but not all stops are charges. If we need to stop to go to the bathroom (or eat, or sightsee, or anything else), we can do that anywhere, not limited to where there's chargers. Sure, they often overlap, but the point is having more flexibility when you only have to charge every 300-400 miles instead of every 150-200. Opens up more routes that are weak on DCFC, and we won't feel as obligated to eat lunch at the one restaurant next to the EA because we're stuck there for 30 minutes. By shaving 90 minutes off charging time for a full day, we'll have more flexibility, more options.

There's advantages to faster charging, and advantages to longer range. Which one is better will vary based on how and where you road trip. But of course, having BOTH is even better.

 

[mkhuffman]

How did you gather that data? That's super cool.

A OBDII scanner and the app CarScanner. I usually recorded the data for all my long drives and DCFC charging sessions. The image I provided was a screenshot from my phone, but you can download the data and use Excel if you want. The most useful information you can get from CarScanner is (IMO):

1. Battery State of Health (SoH)
2. Actual battery charge level in kWh.
3. Battery State of Charge (SoC), which is different from the SoC Displayed (SoCD).
4. Charging information like shown in the graph.
5. For efficiency calculations, distance traveled and kWh used during that distance. I found that the real efficiency does not match what is shown inside the car's trip computer. Actual efficiency is usually higher.

I miss getting all that data since my Rivian does not have the OBDII interface. (The plug is there but it is not OBDII compatible.) A lot of good data is available via services like Teslafi (Eletrifi), but it isn't as detailed as what Ford provides via the OBDII connection.

Search the forum for OBDII and you will find a lot of information about how to do it. I learned it from others here.

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