Tesla!! when it is going to stop??

[Ghost Ryder]

When people show you who they are, Believe them!

Ok. Got it. Stop at the click bait titles. Let the echo chamber think for you.

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[George Knighton]

As far as I know EPA doesn't do the testing, they define the protocols and manufacturers do the testing and reporting the numbers.

That is exactly right. The EPA gives Tesla two choices, and Tesla picks the one that makes them sound good.

I wish that we would take away the choice of test that Tesla uses.

I test drove two Model Y Performance before I went with the GT PE.

There's little comparison when it comes to quality. The reason I tested two Model Y Performance is because of how bad the first one was. But the second one wasn't much better.

And for whatever it is worth, Blue Cruise is much better than Autopilot or Tesla FSD.

The GT PE cost more than the Model Y Performance would have cost, however. So there's that.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

That is exactly right. The EPA gives Tesla two choices, and Tesla picks the one that makes them sound good.

I wish that we would take away the choice of test that Tesla uses.

I test drove two Model Y Performance before I went with the GT PE.

There's little comparison when it comes to quality. The reason I tested two Model Y Performance is because of how bad the first one was. But the second one wasn't much better.

And for whatever it is worth, Blue Cruise is much better than Autopilot or Tesla FSD.

The GT PE cost more than the Model Y Performance would have cost, however. So there's that.

Agree on only making one standard test cycle. Don't really know why there is a choice. Just confuses the public.

I can see how some could argue that blue cruise is better than autopilot or vice versa. By all accounts they're pretty equivalent. But there is absolutely no way that Blue Cruise is better than FSD. It wasn't programed that way. You can't even activate hands free blue cruise on the street. Let alone recognize lights, make turns on its own, or navigate to an address. FSD is not perfect, but if you look at it objectively, and there are tons of videos (make sure you look at the latest update as they are always updating, recently went full Ai,) you have to admit that it's pretty impressive. It's still a work in progress for sure, but the advances they made is astounding.

I remember using radar cruise control for the first time <10 years ago and thought that was pretty slick. To think that a car can drive pretty well on it's own now is pretty mind blowing.

 

[Jmmanley]

Before my tesla I drove multiple ICE cars and I always get very close to the estimated MPG with exact style of driving and routes. I drove the tesla on more flat interstate in perfect conditions and the best I could get on HWY is around 245 probably, which is again significantly lower than the 330. On same flat roads my previous ICE gets higher MPGe than the advertised one. I've driving my Mach-E GT on the same roads and I get very similar range to what I was getting on the model Y, maybe fraction less 205-230 compared to 210-235 with tesla.

I’ve never owned a Tesla so I’m not refuting your issue. I would add that your comparison to an ICE range estimate is flawed.

An ICE range improves to best case on the freeway and an EV best case is stop and go city driving due to regen. So to be fair, you should compare the range in the city for the EV to the range estimates on the highway for the ICE. Based on your description of the disparity, I still expect your complaint stands, but to a lessor degree.

When comparing it to the MME…well freeway -freeway works, but again, it’s your worst case. Drive for a week in the city driving like Miss Daisy and see what the numbers say.

 

[Mach1E]

An ICE range improves to best case on the freeway and an EV best case is stop and go city driving due to regen.

Agree with what said except for this statement as to “why.”

Regen isn’t why BEVs are more efficient in the city. It’s because of wind and rolling resistance. The faster you go, the less efficient you are.

ICE also have wind and rolling resistance, but gearing efficiencies at higher speeds (around 65 mph) make up for those losses.

BEVs are most efficient cruising at lower speeds. Stop and go is almost as efficient because of regen, but there is definitely wasted energy every time you slow down using regen.

 

[HONEST ABE]

People don’t understand what epa range means. They assume that epa range means real world range. By the way who’s real world? My real world is different from your real world. All EPA range means that it was the range achieved on a very specific test cycle. If your drove that exact test cycle under that condition you too would achieve that range.

No need to launch an investigation. This has been hashed out many times before.
In summary. Don’t blame the player. Blame the game. The EPA needs to update their test cycle to better reflect the avg use case.

it is more like people don't understand posts. I am not complaining about lose of range in general but the variation on the advertised range compared to other EV. Although I believe EV manufacturer should be held to same standard to ICE vehicles when it comes to consumption with small margin of error not 30% or more

 

[HONEST ABE]

It is, what it is. I don't make these things up:

it must be the PE is way less efficient than GT

 

[Ghost Ryder]

it is more like people don't understand posts. I am not complaining about lose of range in general but the variation on the advertised range compared to other EV. Although I believe EV manufacturer should be held to same standard to ICE vehicles when it comes to consumption with small margin of error not 30% or more

That's the thing. Tesla advertised the EPA range. If you drove exactly like the EPA cycle, then you would get the advertised mileage. There is no lie, no over promising. Tesla advertised the range they got and verified on the EPA cycle. There was no cheating (like VW did years ago.) If there was cheating involved, then Tesla would of got fined heavily like VW did.

 

[HONEST ABE]

I use the money I was paying for XM on the MME for a subscription to Apple Music for the Tesla (Tesla has Apple Music built in). I now find that I am using Apple Music in all of our cars and not only have more music options, but better sound quality as well.

better sound quality?? Tesla has very good speaker but B&O are great and probably the best sound system Ive had in a car. I am a youtube music guy and unfortunately it is not available on tesla but it is on car play in MME

 

[Ghost Ryder]

it must be the PE is way less efficient than GT

the PE has stickier tires which account for the decreased range compared to the GT.

 

[Mach1E]

That's the thing. Tesla advertised the EPA range. If you drove exactly like the EPA cycle, then you would get the advertised mileage. There is no lie, no over promising. Tesla advertised the range they got and verified on the EPA cycle. There was no cheating (like VW did years ago.) If there was cheating involved, then Tesla would of got fined heavily like VW did.

It’s not lying and cheating.

However it’s not totally honest either.

If almost every other manufacturer uses the test that’s more realistic, it’s not totally honest to use the test that you KNOW inflates the numbers.

They also CHOOSE to use a more generous correction factor for the test.

The end result is confusion for the consumer and almost every review claiming a higher range for Tesla than the competitors. (Except any review that tests real world range and finds the opposite).

If you know the scale is broken….. sure it’s legal to use it, but is it ethical?

I don’t think it is.

 

[HONEST ABE]

I’ve never owned a Tesla so I’m not refuting your issue. I would add that your comparison to an ICE range estimate is flawed.

An ICE range improves to best case on the freeway and an EV best case is stop and go city driving due to regen. So to be fair, you should compare the range in the city for the EV to the range estimates on the highway for the ICE. Based on your description of the disparity, I still expect your complaint stands, but to a lessor degree.

When comparing it to the MME…well freeway -freeway works, but again, it’s your worst case. Drive for a week in the city driving like Miss Daisy and see what the numbers say.

I am not comparing the HWY efficiency for ICE and EV. My point is how estimated range and consumption between real world and paper should be close for both types with similar margin of error. The only thing I can see here is ICE rarely get the advertised city rating. So I guess if you look at it from that angle then you have a point. But still that is secondary issue of my problem with tesla advertised range vs other EVs

 

[HONEST ABE]

That's the thing. Tesla advertised the EPA range. If you drove exactly like the EPA cycle, then you would get the advertised mileage. There is no lie, no over promising. Tesla advertised the range they got and verified on the EPA cycle. There was no cheating (like VW did years ago.) If there was cheating involved, then Tesla would of got fined heavily like VW did.

I appreciate the explanation but still that is not acceptable in my opinion. EPA or tesla need to fix that testing issue to make it more unified across the board. Also that does not explain how model 3 has much better real world range vs Model Y where it is only rated at 3 miles extra. Tesla must did their testing in a vacuum where no air resistant did exist to achieve similar numbers

 

[Mach1E]

I appreciate the explanation but still that is not acceptable in my opinion. EPA or tesla need to fix that testing issue to make it more unified across the board. Also that does not explain how model 3 has much better real world range vs Model Y where it is only rated at 3 miles extra. Tesla must did their testing in a vacuum where no air resistant did exist to achieve similar numbers

If you read up about the 5 cycle test they use, basically it uses lower speeds and a different correction factor vs the 2 cycle test everyone else uses.

Bottom line- it inflates range about 10% vs the 2 cycle test for BEVs.

 

[HONEST ABE]

one thing I like to add about the tesla, I see people here complain about stiff suspension in MME. I am sure non of them rode in a tesla before. My model Y 2023 supposedly has an improved suspension to previous year. And if that the case we all should pray for older tesla model owner for not having a CTE from their ride. My model Y was the worst suspension I have ever experienced. My cousin has Hyundai elantra and it has much better suspension than the model Y. MME suspension feels like air suspension now to me. The body roll in tesla when you hit the smallest imperfection is horrible and will shake your body and you brain like a blinder

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