This interview with Farley literally answers every software gremlin post on this site

[Mirak]

So my software takeaways from this interview:

1. Ford outsourced much of its software to the manufacturers of each module, which is like “150” and they don’t talk to each other and Ford can’t figure out how to make them talk to each other.
2. Ford is taking a totally different approach for its next gen, which indicates to me that they’re basically pulling up stakes on the current gen.

Do I have that right?

But it still doesn’t explain to me why…

• You still cannot permanently disable alarm interior motion sensors, even though there is a setting to do just that. Ford actually issued a SSM helpfully explaining that toggling this setting lasts for exactly one whole key cycle.
• The car reverts to Guest profile every time you remote start, for absolutely no logical reason.
• When you tap “max defrost” once, it turns on. When you tap that button a second time, instead of turning off, the HVAC goes to Auto Medium.
• Ford still has not enabled electronic frunk access for your car, despite it having the same frunk latch actuator as everyone else.
• You have to tap into Settings to open the Trunk from inside the car.
• You have to tap a clipart house icon to open... the app tray.
• Your radio presets still occasionally disappear.
• PAAK still doesn't work as reliably as the fob.

These problems seem to be almost entirely design problems and SYNC problems, no? Shouldn’t Ford be able to pretty easily fix most of these?

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[GreaseMonkey]

The amount of narcissism is unreal on this thread ?

Ford has a different business model than you, get over it. Doing what forum member X wants is not the only way to be a good company ? They’re in the business of making money and determined this was the best way to do it with the resources, IP, and business environment that they had during the development of the first gen of EV’s roughly 10 years ago at this point. Focusing on the next generation with a significantly better architecture and control over the systems is far more productive than fixing nuisance bug x,y,z on a product already regarded as one of the best EVs on the market with zero changes ??‍.

So you have lower expectations than others on this thread. That’s fine. We already purchased the vehicle, so our opinions don’t really matter. Just think about it this way: for Ford to be financially successful, they need to find many more people with low expectations AND willingness to pay thousands more vs Model Y, the standard vehicle in this class. Is that a recipe for success? We are all rooting for Ford to be successful. They are just not helping themselves out.

 

[Mach1E]

Then two years ago it must have been unusable by comparison. Wanna trade cars? ?. Sorry, Sheeba, I didn't really mean that. How about we just swap center displays.

Ooh, wouldn't that be cool if you could swap the center console out with an iPad Pro or Galaxy Tab S8 Ultra. Something with real processing chops. Just the hardware.

The UI was definitely slower to start up and respond before the major update. Now it’s almost instant.

 

[tannerk89]

So you have lower expectations than others on this thread. That’s fine. We already purchased the vehicle, so our opinions don’t really matter. Just think about it this way: for Ford to be financially successful, they need to find many more people with low expectations AND willingness to pay thousands more vs Model Y, the standard vehicle in this class. Is that a recipe for success? We are all rooting for Ford to be successful. They are just not helping themselves out.

I don’t have lower expectations, I have an understanding of how businesses operate.

Go buy literally any new vehicle for 40-70k, and tell me you don’t have a single issue with it. It doesn’t matter who you compare to, every single one has issues, unless it’s been in production for years. As is the nature of something as complex with as many systems and humans as it take to mass produce a vehicle. This isn’t some niche software program that takes a handful of people to create.

It’s a trade off between development costs/warranty claims/and customer acquisition, among other factors to maximize profit. That balance determines the extent of the development, and if you look at the Mach-E objectively - after the first two model years warranty numbers and campaigns are low, and it’s still ranked high in sales and reviews globally. Their tech is stable for the most part, and better than most vehicles in the same price. Could they do better knowing what we all know now? Yes. But crystal balls are few and far between in my experience.

 

[stealthytolkien]

The UI was definitely slower to start up and respond before the major update. Now it’s almost instant.

What version are you talking about? Thanks.

 

[curtisfinney]

Interesting take ... I look at more like incompetence. When they designed the MachE they should have ensured that everything works together. They should have hired people who know how to design software for cars. It's as if they just threw something together to get it out the door and we have to bear the brunt of it.

If I were to start selling things to customers to secure critical operations without knowing how it all works together and they suffered a catastrophic loss I'm sure I would be held for negligence. Especially if I went on twitter and said, "Well it's hard and we didn't plan well to make sure they talk together".

Incompetence, that is pretty strong language. As Farley said, we are experiencing a paradigm switch similar to flip phones to smartphones.

Automakers reuse components in their cars - it saves money for the vendor and consumer. My friend was comparing some of the same parts between his 22 Bronco and my 23 Mach E.

Before I bought my car, I did my research and learned a lot through Munro and associates videos on YouTube. They tear down cars and talk about how they are manufactured. Ever wonder why your car has a twelve volt battery? It’s legacy components - even Tesla has 12v components in them. The model of outsourcing components worked for car companies for a long time, now it isn’t and they need to adapt.

I also knew my car was not going to be as great as a ‘24 or later. We are transitioning from Nokia, Motorola, Ericsson, and Blackberry phones to iPhones and Androids. I don’t expect to get an iPhone 15 Pro at the moment. We are still at the iPhone 4. This technology is changing fast and Ford is learning from their experience. Early adopters should expect this. If you wanted a car that works like an ICE car then that is the car you should buy. I wanted more than just electric propulsion in my car.

Here is a video comparing the thermal system in the Mach E to model Y

 

[GreaseMonkey]

I don’t have lower expectations, I have an understanding of how businesses operate.

Go buy literally any new vehicle for 40-70k, and tell me you don’t have a single issue with it. It doesn’t matter who you compare to, every single one has issues, unless it’s been in production for years. As is the nature of something as complex with as many systems and humans as it take to mass produce a vehicle. This isn’t some niche software program that takes a handful of people to create.

It’s a trade off between development costs/warranty claims/and customer acquisition, among other factors to maximize profit. That balance determines the extent of the development, and if you look at the Mach-E objectively - after the first two model years warranty numbers and campaigns are low, and it’s still ranked high in sales and reviews globally. Their tech is stable for the most part, and better than most vehicles in the same price. Could they do better knowing what we all know now? Yes. But crystal balls are few and far between in my experience.

Friend, let’s watch what will happen to sales over the next few months. There’s no point in lecturing one another about how the world works.

 

[DevSecOps]

Incompetence, that is pretty strong language. As Farley said, we are experiencing a paradigm switch similar to flip phones to smartphones.

I also knew my car was not going to be as great as a ‘24 or later. We are transitioning from Nokia, Motorola, Ericsson, and Blackberry phones to iPhones and Androids. I don’t expect to get an iPhone 15 Pro at the moment. We are still at the iPhone 4. This technology is changing fast and Ford is learning from their experience. Early adopters should expect this. If you wanted a car that works like an ICE car then that is the car you should buy. I wanted more than just electric propulsion in my car.

The funny thing about your comment is that I have watched, likely, every Munro video there is. I love the breakdowns and analysis that he and his team provide.

Unfortunately my words in this thread have been twisted a thousand different ways. So to be clear - I have never, in any post in this thread, said that I want something that I wasn't promised or sold. If you look through my comment history, I'm the one who always advocates that we shouldn't expect anything more than what we paid for. I don't expect BC 1.2 for free. I don't expect anything more than what I purchased at the time I purchased it.

However, I also don't expect a car that I purchased to have more problems due to software updates than it started with. Literally, I have more issues now that when I purchased it in October of '21. Those issues aren't a result of wear and tear, they are a result of failures on behalf of Ford. I fully expect there to be issues with any vehicle. What I don't expect is for them to be caused 6 months post purchase by updates and then there's no fix for another year. That's unacceptable.

This paradigm switch that you speak of is just another excuse. Ford has torn down, likely hundreds, of Tesla's, they partnered with, at one time, Rivian (likely have all their IP) and they've been making cars for 100+ years. There's nothing that they didn't know from the start. If you wish to believe that they went into engineering the MachE blind, well go ahead - I'm not buying that one bit. Tesla was the pioneer and it makes sense for those early adopters to have issues. Ford isn't pioneering anything in EVs.

 

[tannerk89]

Friend, let’s watch what will happen to sales over the next few months. There’s no point in lecturing one another about how the world works.

Fair enough, I apologize for coming off as rude to you!

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Fair enough, I apologize for coming off as rude to you!

No apologies needed. All good here!

 

[BigMach-E]

So my software takeaways from this interview:

1. Ford outsourced much of its software to the manufacturers of each module, which is like “150” and they don’t talk to each other and Ford can’t figure out how to make them talk to each other.
2. Ford is taking a totally different approach for its next gen, which indicates to me that they’re basically pulling up stakes on the current gen.

Do I have that right?

This pretty much sounds like what is being said here. One could also say that what is being said here to the folks who already bought the car “hey, sorry we duped you into buying a car that will be basically worthless in another two years time, because we will be stopping development for it, we won’t put many more assets into fixing the software problems for it, we are moving on to the second generation.”

Difference here between between a computer and a car is that a computer costs about 1k to 5k. When that computer is obsolete and worth very little on resale, it’s not nearly as big of a hit to the wallet to the folks who bought it.

I understand the idea that it might be hard with the architecture of the current gen to fix the problems it has, but it’s almost all software based, and they should fix it. This idea of saying “well, we are moving away from this, thanks for your cash” really doesn’t sit well with me.

 

[DYohn]

First off, I loved Farley's interview. Having worked closely with several CEOs in Silicon Valley over the past few decades, none of them came off as being as honest and straight-forward as he does, even though it is also pretty clear when he shifts into marketing talk. The description he gives of the reasons why new vehicle development - of a vehicle type that is not just a new version of older technology - are welcome to me.

Second, speaking personally, I knowingly bought a job one car of a brand new model. I have done this many times from many manufacturers. No job one car is without issues, and none of them "deliver everything I was sold" without problems. I could write a book about the issues with my 2004 CLS or my 2013 Model S. My MME has had issues, but they were expected in my mind, and as of today the vast majority are either fixed or mitigated.

So I come to this forum as an enthusiast for the MME, and I read the threads about issues with interest so that in case something like is being described crops up in my car I'll be better prepared. But the whining here is quite amazing sometimes (and not just in this thread.)

 

[GreaseMonkey]

A serious question for those who own other EVs or participate on non-Ford forums:

How are other legacy OEMs dealing with SW updates / improvements?

I’m specifically interested in Kia / Hyundai and VW cause they have sold similar EVs and have similar supply chains.

 

[Mach1E]

What version are you talking about? Thanks.

The one I had for the first year of owning the car.

It was a major update. It’s when the entire look (icons, shortcuts etc) changed.

If you’ve always had a button on the main Screen for 360 cameras then you never had the old interface.

I think it was this one- 4.1.2
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/4-1-2-ota-update-delay.25023/

 

[phil]

A serious question for those who own other EVs or participate on non-Ford forums:

How are other legacy OEMs dealing with SW updates / improvements?

I’m specifically interested in Kia / Hyundai and VW cause they have sold similar EVs and have similar supply chains.

VW has been very slow, at least in the US. I understand they released their first ID.4 software update only in the last few months, and it was dealer-installed, not OTA. OTA capability is supposedly being enabled for unspecified future updates.

Ford has far surpassed the low standard set by VW.

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