Trade in Value

[Maquis]

We shall see I guess.

But your experience? Definitely not normal. What are you doing to your Fords?!?

Probably the only things we could compare would be 100k+ mile Teslas to 100k+ mile ICEs. Would be interesting to see the long term repair costs out of warranty.

But either way, I still think we have just about as many components that “can break.”

2 trucks used for towing - those were not unexpected.

The others were vans, two Windstars and an E150 conversion. Driven by my wife as kid haulers. No way they should have had issues when they did.

i‘d venture to guess there are more moving parts just in a modern automatic transmission than an EV. But I’m too lazy to count.

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[Mach1E]

2 trucks used for towing - those were not unexpected.

The others were vans, two Windstars and an E150 conversion. Driven by my wife as kid haulers. No way they should have had issues when they did.

i‘d venture to guess there are more moving parts just in a modern automatic transmission than an EV. But I’m too lazy to count.

Moving parts?
Sure.

But if your transmission is broke it’s broke.

How many components make up our battery?

No need to count. It doesn’t matter. If you battery doesn’t work, it doesn’t work.

Again, we really don’t have less “things to break.” Sure, we have less moving parts but way more electrical parts. We just swapped one problem for another.

I’ll say it again, we have less maintenance, but not less stuff that can break. At the end of the day, if your car can’t drive, does it matter if it was a mechanical moving part issue or a capacitor that went out?

And most of the stuff that’s more common to break (a/c, radiator, power windows/mirrors/seats etc) we do have.

 

[devmach-e]

I guess you've never had a Chrysler/Fiat/Stellantis group vehicle before. ?

I had a '96 Grand Caravan. The only issue I had with that car was a transmission fluid leak which I was able to get fixed for about $120. Other than it eating the left front brake rotor every other brake job, that car was super reliable. 160K miles before a car accident totaled it. Of course, things have probably changed in the last 25 years or so.

 

[devmach-e]

We bought a Premium RWD ER. Cost was $54K before taxes, etc. OTD was around $59K. We put $16K down. Factoring in taxes, etc, the amount we financed was ~$43K and our balloon payment is less than $19K. I have no doubt the car will be worth at least $20K in 3 years.

 

[Mach1E]

I may be one of the few that both isn’t really shocked and doesn’t care much that resale values are going down to “normal levels.”

I feel like I got a killer deal when I traded in my last car on the Mach E, so it’s just fine.

They gave me $45k for my 2015 Chevy SS sedan. I only paid $36k new for it.

That plus X plan and $7500 federal tax credit means I did just fine on an every option GTPE. Only cost me $20k OTD plus trade.

Considering how I was expecting a $20k resale on my SS when I bought it new…… totally fine.

 

[Blue highway]

The health of the EV market is not determined by Buncombe County, NC. EV sales are significant in other states. Your state is rapidly growing in EV adoption.

See how poorly your county ranks here: https://www.ncdot.gov/initiatives-p...imate-change/Pages/zev-registration-data.aspx

Can't you see that people are not interested in facts? The sky is falling... 50% CAGR...bah

 

[redranger04g]

Moving parts?
Sure.

But if your transmission is broke it’s broke.

How many components make up our battery?

No need to count. It doesn’t matter. If you battery doesn’t work, it doesn’t work.

Again, we really don’t have less “things to break.” Sure, we have less moving parts but way more electrical parts. We just swapped one problem for another.

I’ll say it again, we have less maintenance, but not less stuff that can break. At the end of the day, if your car can’t drive, does it matter if it was a mechanical moving part issue or a capacitor that went out?

And most of the stuff that’s more common to break (a/c, radiator, power windows/mirrors/seats etc) we do have.

Agree to disagree. Not enough data points if we are looking at the MME, but I'm very confident over let's say 8 years and 100,000 miles I'm going to have a higher maintenance and repair cost with an ICE vehicle than my MME.

 

[Chicago-E]

Just think about when all these coolant hoses need to be replaced and Forscan is required in order to burp the coolant. Dealers have plenty of ‘little shiit to keep them employed even if they can’t push updates. But this isn’t ‘major things by any means

these coolant hoses will likely last the life of the vehicle. the hoses on the mach-e dont experience the extreme 200F+ temperatures that ICE engine hoses experience.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I'd venture to guess there are more moving parts just in a modern automatic transmission than an EV. But I’m too lazy to count.

You're right.

A drivetrain in an ICE has around 2,000 moving parts and even more parts that are technically static but still wear out because of the movement of other parts. An EV drivetrain has around 20 moving parts. There's no doubt that long-term EVs will average fewer repairs than ICEs.

 

[azerik]

I however live in AZ. Where the streets melt and tires last about 3 years because of the heat. Every Toyota (Lexus) I've had ended up with a hose leak within 4 years. Usually just out of warranty, almost like the dealer installed a 41k leak starter kit lol. My Focus has the same EV battery, whole buncha pumps and solenoids and junk like the MME. I've been lucky so far but they did replace 2 pumps and the coolant. Which I could have done, if I could have burped the fluid which needs Forscan to run all the pumps. I wonder if that routine is now available to me after subscribing for a year or if it needs the expensive dongle to do that. I just dont trust this many hoses and connections, but an ESP is next on the list. After a subwoofer.. and maybe some stripes.

 

[heisnuts]

I however live in AZ. Where the streets melt and tires last about 3 years because of the heat. Every Toyota (Lexus) I've had ended up with a hose leak within 4 years. Usually just out of warranty, almost like the dealer installed a 41k leak starter kit lol. My Focus has the same EV battery, whole buncha pumps and solenoids and junk like the MME. I've been lucky so far but they did replace 2 pumps and the coolant. Which I could have done, if I could have burped the fluid which needs Forscan to run all the pumps. I wonder if that routine is now available to me after subscribing for a year or if it needs the expensive dongle to do that. I just dont trust this many hoses and connections, but an ESP is next on the list. After a subwoofer.. and maybe some stripes.

I wonder if an ESP would even cover hoses??? I have a feeling the hoses might be listed as a non-covered item.

 

[azerik]

I was thinking that the cooling pieces should be part of the power train or BEV pieces. I dind't have to pay for my FFE's pumps or the traction battery but that was 5 years in with 40k on the clock.

 

[Mach1E]

You're right.

A drivetrain in an ICE has around 2,000 moving parts and even more parts that are technically static but still wear out because of the movement of other parts. An EV drivetrain has around 20 moving parts. There's no doubt that long-term EVs will average fewer repairs than ICEs.

You say “no doubt,” yet the data says otherwise. Simpler doesn’t necessarily equate to more reliable. ICE manufacturers have been focusing on reliability for decades though. Will BeV catch up? I certainly hope so.

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/03/ice-cars-more-reliable-than-electric-cars-study-shows/amp/


ICE Cars More Reliable Than Electric Cars, Study Shows
Despite the simplicity of the powertrain, electric car owners report more problems within the first few years of ownership

https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/ev-reliability-varied-as-gasoline-cars-consumer-reports/

“
Electric vehicles should be more reliable than a car with an internal combustion engine because they have fewer moving parts and less complexity, Fisher said.
“But the reason that we’re not necessarily seeing that is because the companies launching electric vehicles don’t have a hundred years of experience like they do with gasoline-powered vehicles,” Fisher said.

It won’t take long to catch up, he said, but until then, “we’re going to see some growing pains.””

 

[Kevin P]

You say “no doubt,” yet the data says otherwise. Simpler doesn’t necessarily equate to more reliable. ICE manufacturers have been focusing on reliability for decades though. Will BeV catch up? I certainly hope so.

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/03/ice-cars-more-reliable-than-electric-cars-study-shows/amp/


ICE Cars More Reliable Than Electric Cars, Study Shows
Despite the simplicity of the powertrain, electric car owners report more problems within the first few years of ownership

https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/ev-reliability-varied-as-gasoline-cars-consumer-reports/

“
Electric vehicles should be more reliable than a car with an internal combustion engine because they have fewer moving parts and less complexity, Fisher said.
“But the reason that we’re not necessarily seeing that is because the companies launching electric vehicles don’t have a hundred years of experience like they do with gasoline-powered vehicles,” Fisher said.

It won’t take long to catch up, he said, but until then, “we’re going to see some growing pains.””

The JD Power-based reliability metrics are mostly bunk on modern cars. The most common issue that gets called a defect is people having issues using or understanding the user interface/electronics... Thats not a reliability issue, to me at least.

 

[Mach1E]

The JD Power-based reliability metrics are mostly bunk on modern cars. The most common issue that gets called a defect is people having issues using or understanding the user interface/electronics... Thats not a reliability issue, to me at least.

Ah, you didn’t read either link.

One was a UK based company survey, the other was consumer reports.

They specifically talk about issues that require a trip to the dealer. And not only do the BEVs end up at the dealer more often, they spend more time as the dealers take longer to fix them.

At the end of the day, in the shop broken is a reliability issue. Doesn’t matter if it’s a mechanical break or electronic.

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