Why the Mustang Mach E is better than the Tesla Model Y

Mirak

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I think this from his channel
Oh. Then yeah, that seems like less of a Tesla problem and more of a "don't be a dumbass and mod your frunk latch" problem. It's funny - I thought the MY came with an electronically-operated frunk latch, but apparently not.
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No, just limits the conditions where they can drive autonomously.
So what you see in the future is a robotaxi with super expensive technology, but still pay drivers, just in case weather turns? Economically, that's bonkers!

FWIW, I think individualy owned autonomous cars are a solution in search of the problem.
 

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Oh. Then yeah, that seems like less of a Tesla problem and more of a "don't be a dumbass and mod your frunk latch" problem. It's funny - I thought the MY came with an electronically-operated frunk latch, but apparently not.
I think the latch is electronic. This is a mod to make it open too, like the rear hatch on the Mach E.
 

wareagle1440

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Nor should they be designed that way IMO. Not most anyway. FSD should be targeted mostly towards shuttle pods (robotaxis) and freight, not personal cars. Doesn't really make much sense for personal cars. Those are people that want to drive. People that don't want to drive will summon a robotaxi and save a fortune. (When they get here.)
I wonder how long it will take for society to really accept autonomous driving once it is a real option? I ask because as much as I love driving, it cause a tremendous amount of physical damage to people and property every year. And I would give it up if it meant keeping people safer. Sande Munro said Tesla is further along than they are leading on but it's the lawyers holding it up. Maybe tesla's lawyers but he implicated that if an accident were to occur, they wouldn't know who to blame or how to assign blame. This isn't remotely true. Products liability cases have existed for a very long time. It might take some work to bore down on what exactly caused the issue, but it very easily could be done. My guess is the generation that when the generation that grew up with true muscle cars stops driving then it will transition a lot quicker. People already have a perfect distraction and that's their phone. As long as they have something to do, I think people (of a certain generation forward) won't care as much. I'm probably wrong, but I find the question pretty fascinating.
 

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I wonder how long it will take for society to really accept autonomous driving once it is a real option? I ask because as much as I love driving, it cause a tremendous amount of physical damage to people and property every year. And I would give it up if it meant keeping people safer. Sande Munro said Tesla is further along than they are leading on but it's the lawyers holding it up. Maybe tesla's lawyers but he implicated that if an accident were to occur, they wouldn't know who to blame or how to assign blame. This isn't remotely true. Products liability cases have existed for a very long time. It might take some work to bore down on what exactly caused the issue, but it very easily could be done. My guess is the generation that when the generation that grew up with true muscle cars stops driving then it will transition a lot quicker. People already have a perfect distraction and that's their phone. As long as they have something to do, I think people (of a certain generation forward) won't care as much. I'm probably wrong, but I find the question pretty fascinating.
I think Musk saying the lawyers are holding it up is code for "we do not want to accept liability if anything goes wrong". Manufacturers in this arena have not had liability for accidents unless caused by material failure or defect. Software is not a material thing that can "break" in the traditional sense. I think Musk does not want liability for the imperfect system that they have.
 


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So what you see in the future is a robotaxi with super expensive technology, but still pay drivers, just in case weather turns? Economically, that's bonkers!

FWIW, I think individualy owned autonomous cars are a solution in search of the problem.
Or no robotaxies if the weather is especially bad. (Kind of like trying to get a cab in NYC when there is a blizzard.)
 
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efisher

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I wonder how long it will take for society to really accept autonomous driving once it is a real option? I ask because as much as I love driving, it cause a tremendous amount of physical damage to people and property every year. And I would give it up if it meant keeping people safer. Sande Munro said Tesla is further along than they are leading on but it's the lawyers holding it up. Maybe tesla's lawyers but he implicated that if an accident were to occur, they wouldn't know who to blame or how to assign blame. This isn't remotely true. Products liability cases have existed for a very long time. It might take some work to bore down on what exactly caused the issue, but it very easily could be done. My guess is the generation that when the generation that grew up with true muscle cars stops driving then it will transition a lot quicker. People already have a perfect distraction and that's their phone. As long as they have something to do, I think people (of a certain generation forward) won't care as much. I'm probably wrong, but I find the question pretty fascinating.
Take everything Munro says with a large grain of salt.
 

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Or no robotaxies if the weather is especially bad. (Kind of like trying to get a cab in NYC when there is a blizzard.)
So employ drivers and have them sit around and wait for bad weather? That doesn't actually save any money. Or are you saying no transportation in bad weather?
 

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I think he is discussing automatic garage door opening due to proximity based rules...he turned that off and now must 'manually' use a menu choice embedded in the Tesla Screen of all Things. The taped remote solution was for a previous car that was without homelink, no?
Being a Model Y owner I can tell you that the Homelink menu is not buried in a menu it is at the top of the screen and always available. I use the auto open which is great when I am coming home but I have never used the auto close as I don't trust it since it relies on GPS and we all know that GPS is not always accurate. I don't have any wish to have the garage door closing while I am pulling out. The auto open and auto folding mirrors based on location is very nice, the garage door opens and the mirrors fold as I pull into the driveway. But I am not a Tesla Fan Boy by any means. What sold me on Tesla's was the charging infrastructure. We take long trips 3 or 4 times a year and the supercharging network is really great. My first car was a Mustang and I always said that I would get back into a Mustang someday. I will be watching this forum very closely as I can see in a couple of years trading in the Y and getting a Mach E as I love the looks. But I figure I will wait since I don't want to be another first year guinea pig (although my Model Y has been flawless), and I want to see that the charging infrastructure gets more mature and that Ford works out all the issues that I am sure will crop up over the first year.
 

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I use the auto open which is great when I am coming home but I have never used the auto close as I don't trust it since it relies on GPS and we all know that GPS is not always accurate. I don't have any wish to have the garage door closing while I am pulling out.
Pretty sure you would be safe from that. The sensors at your garage entry should keep the door from closing if at all blocked (like a car pulling out). Mine stop the door going down if the dog crosses the threshold if she is outside and runs up to the car after I have pulled in.
 

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I think Musk saying the lawyers are holding it up is code for "we do not want to accept liability if anything goes wrong". Manufacturers in this arena have not had liability for accidents unless caused by material failure or defect. Software is not a material thing that can "break" in the traditional sense. I think Musk does not want liability for the imperfect system that they have.
Which is why it shouldn't be released on a wide scale. And products liability is a strict liability tort which means it's even more important for them to get it right from a liability standpoint. Maybe they are lobbying to get laws changed. That wouldn't shock me at all.
 

wareagle1440

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Take everything Munro says with a large grain of salt.
I've seen data on the number of, and sorry the terms escapes me, but essentially miscalculations by some of these autonomous driving programs at legal conferences and this technology is a long way off, but I wouldn't be shocked if they think they are closer than everyone else thinks.
 

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auto-open would be a great option for the mach-e to have...alas, not as techie as the tesla.
but i can live with it. love the mach-e, zero regrets.


Being a Model Y owner I can tell you that the Homelink menu is not buried in a menu it is at the top of the screen and always available. I use the auto open which is great when I am coming home but I have never used the auto close as I don't trust it since it relies on GPS and we all know that GPS is not always accurate. I don't have any wish to have the garage door closing while I am pulling out. The auto open and auto folding mirrors based on location is very nice, the garage door opens and the mirrors fold as I pull into the driveway. But I am not a Tesla Fan Boy by any means. What sold me on Tesla's was the charging infrastructure. We take long trips 3 or 4 times a year and the supercharging network is really great. My first car was a Mustang and I always said that I would get back into a Mustang someday. I will be watching this forum very closely as I can see in a couple of years trading in the Y and getting a Mach E as I love the looks. But I figure I will wait since I don't want to be another first year guinea pig (although my Model Y has been flawless), and I want to see that the charging infrastructure gets more mature and that Ford works out all the issues that I am sure will crop up over the first year.
 

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I wonder how long it will take for society to really accept autonomous driving once it is a real option? I ask because as much as I love driving, it cause a tremendous amount of physical damage to people and property every year. And I would give it up if it meant keeping people safer. Sande Munro said Tesla is further along than they are leading on but it's the lawyers holding it up. Maybe tesla's lawyers but he implicated that if an accident were to occur, they wouldn't know who to blame or how to assign blame. This isn't remotely true. Products liability cases have existed for a very long time. It might take some work to bore down on what exactly caused the issue, but it very easily could be done. My guess is the generation that when the generation that grew up with true muscle cars stops driving then it will transition a lot quicker. People already have a perfect distraction and that's their phone. As long as they have something to do, I think people (of a certain generation forward) won't care as much. I'm probably wrong, but I find the question pretty fascinating.
I would think that all the cameras and data recording on these new cars will actually make it quite a bit easier to apportion blame in an accident. But that could likewise be of concern to Tesla’s lawyers: it cuts both ways.

And I wonder if Tesla owners know that their driving data could be potentially subpoena’d in the event of an accident?
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