Shopping for a Home Charger

[SnBGC]

If given a choice, I would recommend the contactor type for you. I have seen inside the HCS unit and it seems well designed and built.

Very curious to see inside the Ford Connected Wall EVSE. Would be very surprised if there aren't contactors inside.....especially with the current that thing can provide. Will be interesting...

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[jhalkias]

e-Check is the emissions check to make sure that your car is in compliance in the amount of emissions it is spewing. Counties in Ohio where the air quality is lower have to have cars checked annually to make sure they are in compliance with emission standards. My county (Stark) does not have the requirement. Cuyahoga County where Cleveland is, does have the requirement.
I have never had to deal with it, so I am not sure what happens if your car fails.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Emission checks every two years here in MD. The Leaf has been exempt

 

[SnBGC]

Emissions tests are required here in Arizona in the two most populated counties (Maricopa and Pima). However, electric vehicles are exempt from emissions testing for obvious reasons. Because of this, we are actually allowed to register our EVs for up to 5 years at a time. I renewed my FFE in the spring of this year. For 5 years of registration, the fee was only $101 and some change for all 5 years!

For comparison's sake....registration fees for a brand new Fusion would be $504 for the first year and then reducing a fixed percentage each subsequent year. ($436 for 2nd year, $365 for 3rd year etc.)

A $60k First Edition Mach E could cost $1008 to register it in AZ for the first year....plus $32 Public Safety Fee, $1.50 Air Quality Research Fee, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah. However, since the MME is electric....the Vehicle License Tax (VLT) is only $35. This is a $973 savings in the first year. $837 in savings in year 2 etc.

When I log into my Ford.com profile it shows a potential $7500 in federal tax credit savings and $820 in "potential state savings". That figure must be based on the Select model because my first year's savings is almost $1000. After 3 years, I will have saved $2609 in registration fees alone (compared to a similarly valued ICE vehicle....).

For most metropolitan drivers....the sooner they switch from ICE to BEV, the happier their bank account will be.

 

[jhalkias]

Emissions tests are required here in Arizona in the two most populated counties (Maricopa and Pima). However, electric vehicles are exempt from emissions testing for obvious reasons. Because of this, we are actually allowed to register our EVs for up to 5 years at a time. I renewed my FFE in the spring of this year. For 5 years of registration, the fee was only $101 and some change for all 5 years!

For comparison's sake....registration fees for a brand new Fusion would be $504 for the first year and then reducing a fixed percentage each subsequent year. ($436 for 2nd year, $365 for 3rd year etc.)

A $60k First Edition Mach E could cost $1008 to register it in AZ for the first year....plus $32 Public Safety Fee, $1.50 Air Quality Research Fee, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah. However, since the MME is electric....the Vehicle License Tax (VLT) is only $35. This is a $973 savings in the first year. $837 in savings in year 2 etc.

When I log into my Ford.com profile it shows a potential $7500 in federal tax credit savings and $820 in "potential state savings". That figure must be based on the Select model because my first year's savings is almost $1000. After 3 years, I will have saved $2609 in registration fees alone (compared to a similarly valued ICE vehicle....).

For most metropolitan drivers....the sooner they switch from ICE to BEV, the happier their bank account will be.

NOT in Ohio . . . our Fusion Energi costs me $200 MORE per year to register than my Escape (around $52). Because they passed a new gas tax, they decided that PHEV and BEV vehicles were not paying their fair share.

 

[SnBGC]

NOT in Ohio . . . our Fusion Energi costs me $200 MORE per year to register than my Escape (around $52). Because they passed a new gas tax, they decided that PHEV and BEV vehicles were not paying their fair share.

Bummer.

 

[dbsb3233]

For most metropolitan drivers....the sooner they switch from ICE to BEV, the happier their bank account will be.

Excluding the extra $10k-$15k they paid up front in the purchase price of the vehicle, that is.

 

[SnBGC]

Excluding the extra $10k-$15k they paid up front in the purchase price of the vehicle, that is.

yeah I get what you are saying but I would argue that the initial price is included in my statement. Most people incur vehicle expenses on a monthly basis so the $10k-$15k isnt actually "paid" up front.

Really hard to compare value of an ICE and BEV because the BEV brings so much more value to vehicle ownership than just the direct cost. It is fairly easy to calculate purchase cost, maintenance and energy costs and determine total cost of ownership but that isnt the entire picture. The convenience of BEV ownership has a value too but how does one quantify that? How much is your time worth? If you have a BEV now, then you know what I mean. If the MME is going to be your first, then I am very excited for you. It will be a whole new experience in vehicle ownership and driving enjoyment.

 

[jhalkias]

yeah I get what you are saying but I would argue that the initial price is included in my statement. Most people incur vehicle expenses on a monthly basis so the $10k-$15k isnt actually "paid" up front.

Really hard to compare value of an ICE and BEV because the BEV brings so much more value to vehicle ownership than just the direct cost. It is fairly easy to calculate purchase cost, maintenance and energy costs and determine total cost of ownership but that isnt the entire picture. The convenience of BEV ownership has a value too but how does one quantify that? How much is your time worth? If you have a BEV now, then you know what I mean. If the MME is going to be your first, then I am very excited for you. It will be a whole new experience in vehicle ownership and driving enjoyment.

We have a Fusion Energi (my wife's car) and I have been wanting a true BEV since we got that car. I LOVE driving it on battery, and try not to drive it somewhere myself unless I know it is within range. With Covid, and her working at home, I think we are up over 140 mpg now, and have not put gas in it for months. It really has a very different and better "feel" to it that is not quantifiable.

 

[dbsb3233]

yeah I get what you are saying but I would argue that the initial price is included in my statement. Most people incur vehicle expenses on a monthly basis so the $10k-$15k isnt actually "paid" up front.

Really hard to compare value of an ICE and BEV because the BEV brings so much more value to vehicle ownership than just the direct cost. It is fairly easy to calculate purchase cost, maintenance and energy costs and determine total cost of ownership but that isnt the entire picture. The convenience of BEV ownership has a value too but how does one quantify that? How much is your time worth? If you have a BEV now, then you know what I mean. If the MME is going to be your first, then I am very excited for you. It will be a whole new experience in vehicle ownership and driving enjoyment.

Yep, there's just so many "it depends" factors involved -- how many miles you drive/yr, if you have home (residential rate) charging, will you need to do many long road trips, tax credits, maintenance costs, registration fees, car loan interest, etc etc etc.

In my case my MME is gonna cost significantly more than an ICE counterpart, because we drive so few miles in retirement. Refueling 100% at home should save about $400/yr over gas ($4k/decade). Maintenance should save a little but not a lot (we treat our vehicles well and they rarely need more than oil changes). I'm expecting insurance to go up on a $60k car. Registration fees probably flat. We only plan one "challenge" long road trip (otherwise that adds expense using expensive EA fuel). I figure maybe $6k less operational expense over the decade. But probably $12k extra on the purchase price (even after tax credits). The sales tax alone will be almost $4000.

But someone that drives 25,000 miles/yr should see significant savings, if they charge at home 99% of the time.

I'm willing to splurge and pay the extra though to have an MME to pair with our Escape because (a) we have the money and (b) it'll be fun to drive.

 

[SnBGC]

....

But someone that drives 25,000 miles/yr should see significant savings, if they charge at home 99% of the time.
...

^^That is me right there. I average 25k-30k miles per year at least.
From 1999 to 2019 (20 years) I drove a F250 CC 4x4 7.3 liter PSD. Have well over 400k miles on that thing. Extreme example I know....but in 20 years I spent $115,659 in fuel, maintenance (tires, batteries etc) and repairs ($94k of that was just fuel). That doesn't even include the cost of the truck which I thought was outrageous at the time I bought it.

I don't really expect to drive the MME for that long....but 8-10 years could happen if I like it enough. Really hard to predict with an EV. These have the potential to be a bit like a cell phone where people want to upgrade more often than necessary in order to get the new and improved features. Over the Air Updates will help curb that need a little bit but we are blazing new ground here....

 

[JamieGeek]

^^That is me right there. I average 25k-30k miles per year at least.
From 1999 to 2019 (20 years) I drove a F250 CC 4x4 7.3 liter PSD. Have well over 400k miles on that thing. Extreme example I know....but in 20 years I spent $115,659 in fuel, maintenance (tires, batteries etc) and repairs ($94k of that was just fuel). That doesn't even include the cost of the truck which I thought was outrageous at the time I bought it.

I don't really expect to drive the MME for that long....but 8-10 years could happen if I like it enough. Really hard to predict with an EV. These have the potential to be a bit like a cell phone where people want to upgrade more often than necessary in order to get the new and improved features. Over the Air Updates will help curb that need a little bit but we are blazing new ground here....

When I picked up the Focus Electric I was driving a V-10 F-350 and paying $350/month in gas. My monthly "fuel" bill dropped to $50/month with the Focus (for around 1000 miles/month).

NOT in Ohio . . . our Fusion Energi costs me $200 MORE per year to register than my Escape (around $52). Because they passed a new gas tax, they decided that PHEV and BEV vehicles were not paying their fair share.

Michigan also did the same thing: My registration fee for the Bolt is more than the RV and any of our gas cars.

 

[dbsb3233]

Michigan also did the same thing: My registration fee for the Bolt is more than the RV and any of our gas cars.

And that's gonna be the case in most states as (in general) it's intended to be a counterpart to the gas tax (funding roads) that EVs don't pay.

RVs don't pay as much toward roads because they usually aren't driven much. ICE cars pay for roads mostly via the gas tax rather than registration fees (or as much, anyway). But BEVs pay no gas tax road funding, yet still use the roads as much as ICE. So states usually shift it over to fixed registration fees instead.

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