Post-21p22 and the DCFC taper cliff.

[breeves002]

37 kWh at 91% is much better than before the new charging curve. I am jealous!

37 kW*

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[breeves002]

Sometimes the Express 250 units are installed in pairs. As best as I can tell.....each machine looks like a 50kW unit with 2 "Power Modules".....which appear to be battery storage devices. These 2 power modules in one machine can output 62.5kW for a period of time. Then they become 50kW units.

If they are installed in pairs and connected a certain way then the second machine can share its stored energy (about 12.5kW) with the first machine. 62.5 kW + 12.5 kW = 75 kW

If two vehicles arrive at the machines at the same time then each car could get 62.5 kW each until the stored energy is transferred and then up to 50kW for the remainder of the session.

If one vehicle starts charging first then it might get 75kW for a bit. A second vehicle arrives later,but will only get 50 kW because car #1 consumed unit #2's stored energy.

Both car leaves and the power modules charge back up and wait for the next EV to come along.

So the express 250's when installed in pairs work like this. They're not "50kW" chargers, it's all current limit. They each have two 78A modules. Meaning they could do 312A max but they won't do that shared. Max 200A.
3 modes they can work in:
-156A standalone (<59.4 kW)
-174A shared (<66.2 kW)
-200A shared (<76.1 kW)

Note the kW numbers are estimates based on the Mach E battery voltage at 80% SoC.

 

[SnBGC]

So the express 250's when installed in pairs work like this. They're not "50kW" chargers, it's all current limit. They each have two 78A modules. Meaning they could do 312A max but they won't do that shared. Max 200A.
3 modes they can work in:
-156A standalone (<59.4 kW)
-174A shared (<66.2 kW)
-200A shared (<76.1 kW)

Note the kW numbers are estimates based on the Mach E battery voltage at 80% SoC.

Awesome. That is more info than ChargePoint ever bothered to explain! ...and we are certified installers for ChaegePoint. ?

We actually have a pair of these going up in East Tucson and another pair near Globe AZ soon.

 

[breeves002]

Awesome. That is more info than ChargePoint ever bothered to explain! And we are certified installers for ChaegePoint. ?

We actually have a pair of these going up in East Tucson and another pair near Globe AZ soon.

To be fair, @Mach-Lee managed to figure this out I'm just relaying it.

They're great chargers but still I wish they could do the max 312A shared. That would be nearly 120kW on the MME!

 

[SnBGC]

So the express 250's when installed in pairs work like this. They're not "50kW" chargers, it's all current limit. They each have two 78A modules. Meaning they could do 312A max but they won't do that shared. Max 200A.
3 modes they can work in:
-156A standalone (<59.4 kW)
-174A shared (<66.2 kW)
-200A shared (<76.1 kW)

Note the kW numbers are estimates based on the Mach E battery voltage at 80% SoC.

So I just pulled out the spec book and it says each module is 31.75kW so one machine stand alone is 62.5kW

Shared is 70kW according to the spec sheet.....

I need to keep reading. What are the two ways to share the machines? Install guide isn't too helpful...

 

[SnBGC]

T

To be fair, @Mach-Lee managed to figure this out I'm just relaying it.

They're great chargers but still I wish they could do the max 312A shared. That would be nearly 120kW on the MME!

Those Power Modules are super heavy. It takes two guys to set each one in place. Feels like a battery to me. They cost $5k each.....

 

[breeves002]

So I just pulled out the spec book and it says each module is 31.75kW so one machine stand alone is 62.5kW

Shared is 70kW according to the spec sheet.....

I need to keep reading. What are the two ways to share the machines? Install guide isn't too helpful...

It is probably based on the installation and wiring if I had to guess but I haven't been able to figure that one out. I've run across 3 of these chargers. The first did the 174A the other two did 200A.

The kW rating assumes 400V. The MME will not be at 400V when DCFC at those speeds so you won't see the full 62.5kW standalone.

Note that it will go up to 1000V but it does not go past 62.5kW per machine. It will taper down output current past 400V to maintain 62.5kW per unit.

 

[SnBGC]

It is probably based on the installation and wiring if I had to guess but I haven't been able to figure that one out. I've run across 3 of these chargers. The first did the 174A the other two did 200A.

The kW rating assumes 400V. The MME will not be at 400V when DCFC at those speeds so you won't see the full 62.5kW standalone.

Note that it will go up to 1000V but it does not go past 62.5kW per machine. It will taper down output current past 400V to maintain 62.5kW per unit.

I wish they would just show the amps also. I know watts are watts and that is the best way to measure things but it seems like amps is what really limits the charging speeds.

 

[breeves002]

I wish they would just show the amps also. I know watts are watts and that is the best way to measure things but it seems like amps is what really limits the charging speeds.

I 100% agree. They need to rate these chargers in amps and not kW. It is deceiving because the ratings are at peak voltage not realistic voltages. Most are current limited you are right.

 

[rodhx]

Thanks guys for the explanation of how those chargers work. The “125kW shared” label is a bit confusing. I hit this pair twice yesterday during a round trip from Birmingham-Chattanooga. Only car there both times. Once my car started charging you could hear the other unit spin up for the sharing function.

I kinda like those chargers though. Dead simple to use. And since I use Chargepoint all the time at work I now know the energy that takes ~7hours on the L2 chargers arrives in 38 minutes at a CPE250

Looks like we are getting quite a few of those units in Alabama as part of a state funded program. I wasn’t too thrilled when I first saw the news but now that I’ve used them these are a great way to provide an oasis in our southeastern charging desert. ?

 

[rodhx]

BTW, I am at the dealer now. Guy went and got their computer and found all the updates still there. He didn’t find the first thing the procedure called for, PCIM maybe(?), so maybe the original tech got that one to go through and thought it was done.

At least they have comfy seating, hot coffee, and an F150 & two Broncos on the showroom floor to play with.

 

[Blue highway]

BTW, I am at the dealer now. Guy went and got their computer and found all the updates still there. He didn’t find the first thing the procedure called for, PCIM maybe(?), so maybe the original tech got that one to go through and thought it was done.

At least they have comfy seating, hot coffee, and an F150 & two Broncos on the showroom floor to play with.

How long did it take the tech to do all the updates? Mine goes in next Wednesday and it would be good to know if it comes back too soon.

 

[rodhx]

How long did it take the tech to do all the updates? Mine goes in next Wednesday and it would be good to know if it comes back too soon.

This time it seemed like about 3 hours or so for ”all the updates listed for your car” so some stuff beyond 21p22. I am still here because one of the tires was mysteriously gashed on the inside sidewall and they have the only replacement in town on the way. I was expecting a nail because it has been a slow leak for a couple of days now.

 

[Blue highway]

This time it seemed like about 3 hours or so for ”all the updates listed for your car” so some stuff beyond 21p22. I am still here because one of the tires was mysteriously gashed on the inside sidewall and they have the only replacement in town on the way. I was expecting a nail because it has been a slow leak for a couple of days now.

Thanks Rod … hope the tire got sorted without too much drama.

 

[rodhx]

Thanks Rod … hope the tire got sorted without too much drama.

Thankfully yes. I was on the road at 1pm. Silver lining is that means I was forced to get lunch at the excellent Mexican restaurant next to the dealer. ?

of course the downside is I now have a new example of these miserable Michelins. ?

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