voxel

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I hope their refit of the supercharger stations comes with longer cables. The current ones look pretty short and don't seem like they would reach the port on a Mach-E or any other EV without a port right on the end of the vehicle.
From a Tesla insider.. I don't think they will retrofit any V2 location because the cost of retrofitting is the same as building a new location. Tesla pays for everything (which surprised me) - chargers, transformers, etc. The location is only responsible for maintaining the parking lot area and keeping it clean.

I heard there are many locations that simply don't want the chargers and bail from proposed installs... and the best locations are grocery stores because they have the necessary power to supply the chargers.

So the problem with the existing stalls and "incorrect" charging ports location on the EV will be moot with the new dual CCS + Tesla stalls.
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iam-s-Hon

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Yeah, Walmart literally has everything but they are massive and the clientele is wellā€¦. Different.
True, and not all are open 24x7. I made a late night desperation low SOC stop at an EA @ Walmart. Was around 20F or a little lower and P&C (I still have some free kWhs) wasn't working. I sent my GF into walmart to wait and stay warm while I contacted EA support. They kicked her out b/c it was around 11pm closing time. Fortunately it got worked out as she returned to car. Issue compounded by my infrequent DCFC and app use and tired, in the cold, and couldn't remember my EA app password.
 

Logal727

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True, and not all are open 24x7. I made a late night desperation low SOC stop at an EA @ Walmart. Was around 20F or a little lower and P&C (I still have some free kWhs) wasn't working. I sent my GF into walmart to wait and stay warm while I contacted EA support. They kicked her out b/c it was around 11pm closing time. Fortunately it got worked out as she returned to car. Issue compounded by my infrequent DCFC and app use and tired, in the cold, and couldn't remember my EA app password.
Wow havenā€™t seen one that isnā€™t open all the time in a while.
 

iam-s-Hon

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Wow havenā€™t seen one that isnā€™t open all the time in a while.
Yeah that's what I thought when picking it out. It's not far from interstate but not right off one. More of a suburban shopping center location. Someone in an ID4- I think- pulled up next to me while charging.

Woman was driving and a guy in the pax seat. I'd like to think he eyed my MME and thought... "damn, I wish we could have waited for one of those instead." šŸ¤£
 

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That's another huge problem. I've seen some systems with battery banks so as to charge outside of peak hours, but frankly, that doesn't seem like a real solution with our current battery technology.
EA has already installed some battery storage systems. But the other thing they can do is throttle the charging rates during peak hours. There is suspicion they are doing that in some locations. Tesla may very well be doing that too.
 


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This also assumes there will be space at a Tesla charger.... I have seen so many videos where the stations are completely full and there is a line of Teslas waiting to charge. I would only assume that opening them up to other makes will only compound the problem.
they happen much less often than those videos go viral. most Tesla users never have to wait. otherwise Elon Musk may not even think opening them up.
 

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I wonder if Tesla owners are going to be dicks about this when supercharging next to them.
Nobody that I know who has a Tesla is going to react like this.
 

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I use fastcharging infrequently, but I can't imagine a less ideal location to put them than a Walmart. Most Tesla charges near me are at Sheetz, which is ideal, but any late hours fast food type place would work. Especially travelling with a kid, dragging them from the furthest away spot in a massive big box store parking lot to walk around a store where they ask me to buy stuff they can have is the worst. At a sheetz, I can get them a bottle of milk or even a banana. I'd gladly pay extra to charge there than a Walmart.
Totally understand, I avoid Walmart as much as possible. I always end up with crap I donā€™t need.
 

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Nobody that I know who has a Tesla is going to react like this.
Sure, most are nice people and not at all elitist - it's the minority that is the issue. However, after having to wait longer to charge due to CCS cars occupying superchargers any Tesla owner may not be in favor of the idea.
 

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šŸ™šŸ™

now how much will the upcharge for non Tesla useā€¦

that will be really big for folks in the northeast, especially CT folks. Super chargers line i95/Merritt parkway with minimal EA coverage
Iā€™d be fine paying a premium for the convenience of the Tesla supercharger network. I figure theyā€™ll have a membership (like EA) that will keep your $/kWh in a reasonable range. I also wouldnā€™t be surprised if there is an additional surcharge if the charging station is busy, so as to discourage non-Teslas from taking up valuable spaces. Even then, it wouldnā€™t impact most of us in the Midwest, as most supercharger locations are sparsely populated at any time of day.
 

HeyMomTheMeatloaf

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Tesla will not open the SC network up anytime soon*

Tesla has already attempted to create CCS SC with state governments, but their chargers were too inexpensive to comply with the grant requirements (Tesla supercharger per unit installed costs are 1/5th the price of any competitor, as per https://insideevs.com/news/580505/tesla-supercharger/ ). The way I see it is; Tesla is too efficient in this space as it stands. Between Buffalo and Shanghai, they can manufacture more than 20,000 superchargers a year (I am amused Tesla will manufacture more supercharger in 2022 than Rivian will manufacture vehicles).

If Tesla were to win grants, only net-new superchargers "in this program" will get CCS. It is very unlikely that Tesla would use the funds to retrofit existing Superchargers.

If Texas is a sign of what is to come with government involvement; Tesla will be denied the grants because they are not financially wasteful enough.

In all seriousness; this exemplifies the economies of scale that Tesla has. No DCFC brand is on the level that Tesla is. Every EA DCFC is made by an OEM in China. It might be a good thing for competition, if Tesla were not further enabled to scale their operations. If they already are 1/5th cheaper, how are the Chinese made EA DCFC ever going to be cheaper than the American made Tesla Supercharger?



This also assumes there will be space at a Tesla charger.... I have seen so many videos where the stations are completely full and there is a line of Teslas waiting to charge. I would only assume that opening them up to other makes will only compound the problem.
 

HeyMomTheMeatloaf

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Tesla is under appreciated. Ford won't even manufacture the Mach-E in USA, won't even build a DCFC. I can appreciate the Blue Angels program, but that is a drop in the bucket compared to what Tesla has done.

Tesla is...

  • Dealing with city/township permitting process and easements
  • Dealing with power purchase agreements and local utilities
  • Securing land
  • Working with local electricians to wire the locations
  • Working with local cement companies and contractors to repave the lots
  • Manufacturing the superchargers themselves
  • Maintaining the actual superchargers

If every auto company was just half as committed as Tesla, we'd all be better off.

It is really amazing that Tesla has shown the commitment that they have (to the supercharger network). It is well maintained and sets a standard.

As to not cause more congestion, I don't think existing SC will get CCS for a long time. I think Tesla will try and start net-new CCS network on top of the SC network, with the CCS network filling gaps in the SC network, and Tesla to CCS adapter being made available in North America

From a Tesla insider.. I don't think they will retrofit any V2 location because the cost of retrofitting is the same as building a new location. Tesla pays for everything (which surprised me) - chargers, transformers, etc. The location is only responsible for maintaining the parking lot area and keeping it clean.

I heard there are many locations that simply don't want the chargers and bail from proposed installs... and the best locations are grocery stores because they have the necessary power to supply the chargers.

So the problem with the existing stalls and "incorrect" charging ports location on the EV will be moot with the new dual CCS + Tesla stalls.
 

timbop

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Tesla will not open the SC network up anytime soon*

Tesla has already attempted to create CCS SC with state governments, but their chargers were too inexpensive to comply with the grant requirements (Tesla supercharger per unit installed costs are 1/5th the price of any competitor, as per https://insideevs.com/news/580505/tesla-supercharger/ ). The way I see it is; Tesla is too efficient in this space as it stands. Between Buffalo and Shanghai, they can manufacture more than 20,000 superchargers a year (I am amused Tesla will manufacture more supercharger in 2022 than Rivian will manufacture vehicles).

If Tesla were to win grants, only net-new superchargers "in this program" will get CCS. It is very unlikely that Tesla would use the funds to retrofit existing Superchargers.

If Texas is a sign of what is to come with government involvement; Tesla will be denied the grants because they are not financially wasteful enough.

In all seriousness; this exemplifies the economies of scale that Tesla has. No DCFC brand is on the level that Tesla is. Every EA DCFC is made by an OEM in China. It might be a good thing for competition, if Tesla were not further enabled to scale their operations. If they already are 1/5th cheaper, how are the Chinese made EA DCFC ever going to be cheaper than the American made Tesla Supercharger?
Nowhere does it say in that article that Tesla was denied because it was too cheap. It mentions Tesla was cheaper, but it also talks about the "first come/first granted" nature of the program. I read a different article, and the gist was that details of the program were leaked to certain individuals, and those individuals had their applications in exactly when the process opened. Since those individuals knew the rules, they padded their applications to grab the maximal amount of cash allowed. They knew the rules had nothing to do with cost analysis, only getting the applications in first. Essentially the structure of this program was explicitly designed as payback for political benefactors.
 
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iam-s-Hon

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Tesla is under appreciated. Ford won't even manufacture the Mach-E in USA, won't even build a DCFC. I can appreciate the Blue Angels program, but that is a drop in the bucket compared to what Tesla has done.

Tesla is...

  • Dealing with city/township permitting process and easements
  • Dealing with power purchase agreements and local utilities
  • Securing land
  • Working with local electricians to wire the locations
  • Working with local cement companies and contractors to repave the lots
  • Manufacturing the superchargers themselves
  • Maintaining the actual superchargers

If every auto company was just half as committed as Tesla, we'd all be better off.

It is really amazing that Tesla has shown the commitment that they have (to the supercharger network). It is well maintained and sets a standard.

As to not cause more congestion, I don't think existing SC will get CCS for a long time. I think Tesla will try and start net-new CCS network on top of the SC network, with the CCS network filling gaps in the SC network, and Tesla to CCS adapter being made available in North America
Could be a bit of apples & oranges. Ford and others are car makers first, and have lots of other car lines to support. Not sure if they have considered using (some of) their locations as charge stops. Tesla has 4 models out, and still having paint quality issues? T's business model, product lines and priorities are just... different IMO.
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