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Tesla Superchargers vs. CCS Network

LYTMCQ

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Checking out the Electrify America charger that is 50 miles from OR coast and makes the Mach-E possible for me.

What do I find charging there but a Bolt and this bad boy....one week old Porsche Taycan Turbo S.


Porsche was hooked up to the 350kW charger while pauvre petite Tesla can only use the 50kW Chademo next door.

I end up paying $6.62 for 21.48kWh. The Porsche paid $14.50 for 22 kWh. Crazy difference in per kWh price. Porsche was topping off so he was charging his last 20% so he was slow charging at high rate.

EA has said it is going to per kWh pricing, be interesting to see where it falls, my $0.31 per kWh or the Taycan's $1.52 per kWh.

Interesting that both of us were charging up for round trip runs to the coast.
 

ajmartineau

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I'll be hitting a couple of free L2 chargers while I'm there so I can take the long way home.
 

Woeo

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I've Supercharged 114 times and only had to be paired with another car twice.
Hmmm.....stretching credulity there?
I end up paying $6.62 for 21.48kWh. The Porsche paid $14.50 for 22 kWh. Crazy difference in per kWh price. Porsche was topping off so he was charging his last 20% so he was slow charging at high rate.

EA has said it is going to per kWh pricing, be interesting to see where it falls, my $0.31 per kWh or the Taycan's $1.52 per kWh.
Taycan paid 66¢ per kWh
 
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Mach-MI

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Hmmm.....stretching credulity there?


Taycan paid 66¢ per kWh
LOL what? I got paired with another car in Kingston, Ontario in July of 2019, and in Hagerstown, Maryland in January of this year. The other 112 sessions I haven't had anyone on the other twin of my Supercharger. That's only in the first 18 months of ownership, though. I'd say 50% of the time I'm the only car charging.
 

LYTMCQ

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Taycan paid 66¢ per kWh
That's more reasonable difference. He was on a slow charge because he was topping off his battery and he was getting charged the highest rate for a 350kW charger.
 

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Hmmm.....stretching credulity there?
@Mach-MI, I suppose @Woeo's doubt is on the other 112 times. It would be implausible that you counted those yourself. So I imagine the Tesla car must have a counter somewhere you can look up.
 

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I've been watching Kyle's journey cross-country on the Outofspec Motoring YouTube channel, and it really has me thinking about not the CCS Network so much as the 150KW limitation of the MME. His Tesla M3 has a Maximum charge rate of 250KW, and it seems to make charging a LOT more timely before the taper. While not gasoline fill-up times, it really seems to make a difference when on a road trip.

Anyone know if the 150KW is a limitation of the MME Hardware, or is it possible we will see a change in the software opening up faster charging speeds once the MME is out there and they feel confident it can handle the juice?
 
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silverelan

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  • Thread starter
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Anyone know if the 150KW is a limitation of the MME Hardware, or is it possible we will see a change in the software opening up faster charging speeds once the MME is out there and they feel confident it can handle the juice?
It's a combination of hardware and software. They always engineer some margin in the limits so it's a safety decision on whether to unlock that or not.

150 kW vs 250 kW really isn't the point so much as how long it takes to charge. The Tesla Model 3/Y takes ~28 minutes to charge to 80% on V3 and ~30 minutes on V2 (can be 3-5mins faster or slower on either, depending on conditions). Where 250 kW really shines Is that first 40-50% state of charge that can be regained in 12 to 15 minutes.

150-250charging-final-1586973065.png
 

jhalkias

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It's a combination of hardware and software. They always engineer some margin in the limits so it's a safety decision on whether to unlock that or not.

Where 250 kW really shines Is that first 40-50% state of charge that can be regained in 12 to 15 minutes.
Yes, so that's exactly what I am talking about. If you can make quick stops between chargers on a trip to get back up to the taper level, 250KW is clearly superior.

So do you think the MME can be "unlocked" to a higher level if they feel it is safe, or does the combination of hardware/Software forever limit it to 150KW? Seeing that AE chargers can charge up to 350KW.
 

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That's a great graph. Especially the times that they scattered in there. It looks like a bigger difference when you look at that white peak, but then you look at the times and you see it saves a mere 2 minutes.

And really, it only saves you 2 minutes if you run the car all the way down to 10% SOC. If your next available charger is at 20% instead, you save maybe 1 minute.

And I still have some doubts over how many people are gonna feel comfortable running all the way down to 10% on a road trip when there are so few backup options if that charger is busy or broken.
 

dbsb3233

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Yes, so that's exactly what I am talking about. If you can make quick stops between chargers on a trip to get back up to the taper level, 250KW is clearly superior.
Counting the pure charging alone, yes, but it may actually take LONGER to charge more often. You have to count the time it takes to exit the interstate, drive to the charger, get out, plug in, process payment, unplug when done, and drive back to the onramp. Might add 3 minutes, might add 10 minutes, depending on how close the charger is to the on/off ramps.

If you cut your (already short vs ICE) leg distances in half to charge twice as often, you need to add all that extra churn time that offsets your charging time saved living in the lower (nervous) half of the SOC range. (And BTW, if one if going to drive road trips with super-short legs like that, might as well save the $5000 and just get the SR battery.)
 
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Mach-MI

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@Mach-MI, I suppose @Woeo's doubt is on the other 112 times. It would be implausible that you counted those yourself. So I imagine the Tesla car must have a counter somewhere you can look up.
Indeed! I use TeslaFi to log all the data from my car, so I have a database of every charging session, date, time, charge curve, etc. Have that for every charge and every drive.
 

dbsb3233

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So do you think the MME can be "unlocked" to a higher level if they feel it is safe, or does the combination of hardware/Software forever limit it to 150KW? Seeing that AE chargers can charge up to 350KW.
Just my guess, but I'm thinking no. Not significantly so anyway (maybe 150 to 160 or something, but I doubt 250 or 350). Have we heard of any BEV that's actually increased it's top-end charging power after-the-fact?

More likely, OTA updates could improve the curve some, letting it stay in the high area a bit longer. And maybe unlock a little more of that 11% reserve they blocked off (making the 88 kWh usable 92 or something). Those are the kind of updates I'd be looking/hoping for.
 

Mach-MI

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Counting the pure charging alone, yes, but it may actually take LONGER to charge more often. You have to count the time it takes to exit the interstate, drive to the charger, get out, plug in, process payment, plug when done, and drive back to the onramp. Might add 3 minutes, might add 10 minutes, depending on how close the charger is to the on/off ramps.

If cut your (already short vs ICE) leg distances in half to charge twice as often, you need to add all that extra churn time that offsets your charging time saved living in the lower (nervous) half of the SOC range.
Yeah I do that on my drives, I've saved 40 minutes vs the Tesla "recommended" charging on an Atlanta-Detroit run by hitting every single Supercharger.
 

dbsb3233

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Yeah I do that on my drives, I've saved 40 minutes vs the Tesla "recommended" charging on an Atlanta-Detroit run by hitting every single Supercharger.
40 minutes in total trip time, or 40 minutes in just on-plug charging time?

I'm guessing the latter. Then add back in all that extra churn time getting off the interstates more often.
 



 










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