Tesla Superchargers vs. CCS Network

ajmartineau

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Threads
30
Messages
1,312
Reaction score
1,893
Location
Washington
Vehicles
2021 Mach-E
Country flag
I'll be hitting a couple of free L2 chargers while I'm there so I can take the long way home.

 

Woeo

Well-Known Member
First Name
Woeo
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Threads
24
Messages
797
Reaction score
853
Location
Maryland
Vehicles
Fusion Energi
Country flag
Hmmm.....stretching credulity there?
Taycan paid 66¢ per kWh
 
Last edited:

RyZt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Threads
12
Messages
608
Reaction score
751
Location
San Jose
Vehicles
Mach E4X
Country flag
Hmmm.....stretching credulity there?
@Mach-MI, I suppose @Woeo's doubt is on the other 112 times. It would be implausible that you counted those yourself. So I imagine the Tesla car must have a counter somewhere you can look up.
 

jhalkias

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Threads
111
Messages
2,374
Reaction score
4,723
Location
Ohio
Vehicles
2021 RR ME FE, 2016 Escape, 2019 Fusion Energi
Occupation
Benefit Fund Administrator
Country flag
I've been watching Kyle's journey cross-country on the Outofspec Motoring YouTube channel, and it really has me thinking about not the CCS Network so much as the 150KW limitation of the MME. His Tesla M3 has a Maximum charge rate of 250KW, and it seems to make charging a LOT more timely before the taper. While not gasoline fill-up times, it really seems to make a difference when on a road trip.

Anyone know if the 150KW is a limitation of the MME Hardware, or is it possible we will see a change in the software opening up faster charging speeds once the MME is out there and they feel confident it can handle the juice?
 
OP
OP
silverelan

silverelan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2019
Threads
104
Messages
2,372
Reaction score
3,382
Location
Seattle
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach-E GT
Country flag
Anyone know if the 150KW is a limitation of the MME Hardware, or is it possible we will see a change in the software opening up faster charging speeds once the MME is out there and they feel confident it can handle the juice?
It's a combination of hardware and software. They always engineer some margin in the limits so it's a safety decision on whether to unlock that or not.

150 kW vs 250 kW really isn't the point so much as how long it takes to charge. The Tesla Model 3/Y takes ~28 minutes to charge to 80% on V3 and ~30 minutes on V2 (can be 3-5mins faster or slower on either, depending on conditions). Where 250 kW really shines Is that first 40-50% state of charge that can be regained in 12 to 15 minutes.

150-250charging-final-1586973065.png
 

jhalkias

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Threads
111
Messages
2,374
Reaction score
4,723
Location
Ohio
Vehicles
2021 RR ME FE, 2016 Escape, 2019 Fusion Energi
Occupation
Benefit Fund Administrator
Country flag
It's a combination of hardware and software. They always engineer some margin in the limits so it's a safety decision on whether to unlock that or not.

Where 250 kW really shines Is that first 40-50% state of charge that can be regained in 12 to 15 minutes.
Yes, so that's exactly what I am talking about. If you can make quick stops between chargers on a trip to get back up to the taper level, 250KW is clearly superior.

So do you think the MME can be "unlocked" to a higher level if they feel it is safe, or does the combination of hardware/Software forever limit it to 150KW? Seeing that AE chargers can charge up to 350KW.
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
TimCO
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Threads
46
Messages
6,857
Reaction score
7,599
Location
Colorado, USA
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach-E FE Red, 2013 Escape Titanium
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
That's a great graph. Especially the times that they scattered in there. It looks like a bigger difference when you look at that white peak, but then you look at the times and you see it saves a mere 2 minutes.

And really, it only saves you 2 minutes if you run the car all the way down to 10% SOC. If your next available charger is at 20% instead, you save maybe 1 minute.

And I still have some doubts over how many people are gonna feel comfortable running all the way down to 10% on a road trip when there are so few backup options if that charger is busy or broken.
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
TimCO
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Threads
46
Messages
6,857
Reaction score
7,599
Location
Colorado, USA
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach-E FE Red, 2013 Escape Titanium
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
Yes, so that's exactly what I am talking about. If you can make quick stops between chargers on a trip to get back up to the taper level, 250KW is clearly superior.
Counting the pure charging alone, yes, but it may actually take LONGER to charge more often. You have to count the time it takes to exit the interstate, drive to the charger, get out, plug in, process payment, unplug when done, and drive back to the onramp. Might add 3 minutes, might add 10 minutes, depending on how close the charger is to the on/off ramps.

If you cut your (already short vs ICE) leg distances in half to charge twice as often, you need to add all that extra churn time that offsets your charging time saved living in the lower (nervous) half of the SOC range. (And BTW, if one if going to drive road trips with super-short legs like that, might as well save the $5000 and just get the SR battery.)
 
Last edited:

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
TimCO
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Threads
46
Messages
6,857
Reaction score
7,599
Location
Colorado, USA
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach-E FE Red, 2013 Escape Titanium
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
So do you think the MME can be "unlocked" to a higher level if they feel it is safe, or does the combination of hardware/Software forever limit it to 150KW? Seeing that AE chargers can charge up to 350KW.
Just my guess, but I'm thinking no. Not significantly so anyway (maybe 150 to 160 or something, but I doubt 250 or 350). Have we heard of any BEV that's actually increased it's top-end charging power after-the-fact?

More likely, OTA updates could improve the curve some, letting it stay in the high area a bit longer. And maybe unlock a little more of that 11% reserve they blocked off (making the 88 kWh usable 92 or something). Those are the kind of updates I'd be looking/hoping for.
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
TimCO
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Threads
46
Messages
6,857
Reaction score
7,599
Location
Colorado, USA
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach-E FE Red, 2013 Escape Titanium
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
40 minutes in total trip time, or 40 minutes in just on-plug charging time?

I'm guessing the latter. Then add back in all that extra churn time getting off the interstates more often.

 

 
Top