Breaker Panel Too Small for EV Charger

[MachEMaster]

10.695kW solar array
battery back-up
critical load panel
200A main (not an option, rather a necessity) We initially ran the EVSE off a 150A. But with all of the electrical demand, it did not suffice.
100% electric home, ~ 4,000 sq. ft. (larger sq. footage would probably require more Amps)
produce more energy than we use (winter is currently the problem: should double solar array and triple or quadruple battery back-up and have bi-directional EV in order to supply winter demand. Hopefully, in the future, when they allow us to purchase affordable batteries!)
no fossil fuels used for energy
charge EVs (two of them, one or the other is plugged in [110] most of the time) directly from solar. Only rarely use EVSE
Best we could design for the present

Agreed. EVs, EVSE, solar, heat pumps, etc. - 200A is pretty much a must have

I am hoping the future MME will have a larger battery capacity, with Vehicle to Home backup. I would definitely trade up.

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[RedStallion]

You can dial down most EVSE without any special gadgets. Regardless I've upgraded my service connection in both homes I have owned, and it shouldn't cost anything from the utility's perspective. You will need someone competent to replace the meter pan and service panel, but I did most of that myself. If you're not handy I imagine it would cost $1000 to $2000

Even if I knew how to do it myself, I'm sure the city wouldn't issue permit for work performed by unlicensed person. The next thing you know the insurance company refuses to extend home insurance. I'd rather pay licensed installers just to have all paperwork in order.

 

[SV8T]

I realize this is something you feel strongly about. The Chargers are on the ChargePoint Network. There are no stipulations on the app, that you must be a student or employee. The only instructions are, first 4 hours are free, and $3 per hour thereafter. If it means the guy can charge his Lightning off hours for 4 hours, for a week until his charger is installed, I say go for it. I don’t think there is any theft in play here.

I tend to disagree with your logic. How would you feel if you had an outdoor charger and some rando pulled up and charged while you were sleeping at night or working a night shift?

Just because it will work, doesn't mean you should take advantage of it. Being irresponsible with chargers/networks will lead to more restrictions for all as they grow and become more monetized.

 

[RickMachE]

I hear you. But that charger is paid for by the University for students and employees to use. It does not matter if it is after hours. It is still theft.

I know it is a paradigm shift for new BEV owners, but think about it from the perspective of those who put in the chargers. Did they do that for your neighbor? Or is the cost for electricity part of their expenses for giving students a place to charge, and employees a place to charge?

I doubt you really think it was for your neighbor. Therefore it is stealing. No different from pumping your tank full at the local gas station, and driving off without paying.

My property taxes include over $1,000 annually for our community college, which has some level 2 chargers. If I needed to use them, I would.

 

[mkhuffman]

My property taxes include over $1,000 annually for our community college, which has some level 2 chargers. If I needed to use them, I would.

I think proper charger etiquette still applies. The chargers are obviously intended for student or employee use, and while you are a taxpayer, you are not a student or employee. And the use case isn't parking your car there to get a free charge because it is near your house. The use case is someone charging while at work or in class.

I see your point but still disagree. I hope this brightens your day.

Edit: I suggest parking in the faculty parking spaces, because you are a taxpayer. That is the same situation, I think.

 

[RickMachE]

I think proper charger etiquette still applies. The chargers are obviously intended for student or employee use, and while you are a taxpayer, you are not a student or employee. And the use case isn't parking your car there to get a free charge because it is near your house. The use case is someone charging while at work or in class.

I see your point but still disagree. I hope this brightens your day.

It does ?. I get so damned depressed when we agree.

Clearly, IF I was to use them, it wouldn't be during classes. Like today would be a great day to go use them.

I just looked earlier, and it appears that they may have recently either removed them from ChargePoint, or turned them off totally. They no longer show on PlugShare.

 

[4sallypat]

The Ford Charge Station Pro can derate to 40A via the internal hardware switch and use a NEMA 14-50 plug/outlet on a 50A breaker.

I have a Lightning and use a 48A L2 charger hard-wired in my garage.
We currently share the charger between my wife's PHEV which charges every day to 100%.

My Lightning gets charged once a week on a weekend.

Hoping to get an MME for the wife but it's look like a 2023 which bums me out due to drop in color choice!

 

[RickMachE]

I had a surprise visit from my neighbor who just took delivery of his sweet Ford F-150 Lightning Lariat. This is the first I have seen in the Wild. He had not yet got his charger installed, and was using level 1 at home, and parking at a local University, to use the free level 2.

Our home electrical panels are only 125 amp service. He would need an expensive upgrade to be able to realize the full 80 amp charging, and the vehicle to home that the Lightning is capable of. He expressed that he didn’t need that sort of capability. I recommended a DCC load shed device that I had installed for my EV charger. With this device, he can run his charger dialed down to 48amps, on his existing 125 amp panel. I have attached the link in hopes it might help others.

https://dccelectric.com/

When we got quotes for EV charging installs over a year ago, one of the electricians INSISTED we had to have this device even though we had 200 amp service. The inspector said "nope". The electrician called the inspector and finally agreed we did not have to.

Similarly, we're putting in a whole house generator. One option was a smaller unit "to save money" but it required 4 "smart modules" that would offload the big loads and bring them in over time. That saved 2.5% over a bigger generator. Thanks, but no thanks, we went with the bigger generator.

 

[MachEMaster]

And I'm curious, how often has your load shed activated? Does it record data on this? Assume you are charging at 48A with it?

I am running my charger at 40 amps off the load shed circuit. We did an electrical load analysis of

And I'm curious, how often has your load shed activated? Does it record data on this? Assume you are charging at 48A with it?

Good question. The load shed would activate if the load on my panel exceeded 80%. I have my MME scheduled to charge at 40 amps, between 12-6am, when the house is calm. (A/C,Hot Water Tank,Oven,Clothes Dryer not operating) The load shed device has not activated to my knowledge. I would probably see something in FordPass if it did. The DCC device was required to pass electrical inspection, after a load analysis was carried out.

 

[MachEMaster]

I tend to disagree with your logic. How would you feel if you had an outdoor charger and some rando pulled up and charged while you were sleeping at night or working a night shift?

Just because it will work, doesn't mean you should take advantage of it. Being irresponsible with chargers/networks will lead to more restrictions for all as they grow and become more monetized.

If a “Public” charger is listed and findable in the ChargePoint App, then I am of the belief you can charge there if you follow the rules. First 4 hours free, then pay to park. If my neighbor is parking overnight, he is paying Chargepoint, and in turn the University, if that was the agreement at installation.

 

[Maquis]

How would you feel if you had an outdoor charger and some rando pulled up and charged while you were sleeping at night or working a night shift?

If my EVSE was installed outdoors and I was worried about unauthorized users, I‘d only install a smart EVSE that can be easily disabled as needed. Even with a dumb EVSE you can flip the breaker off when you’re not charging.

 

[MachEMaster]

My original post was intended to share the specs on a DCC load shed device, for people wanting to install a Level 2 home charger, without costly upgrades to their Breaker Panel.

This has sparked a debate over the use of “Free” chargers at public locations. I consider myself a considerate person, and a good citizen. I would have an issue if my neighbor was using the charger during school hours, when the students and teachers would need them to power their vehicles for their commute.

 

[Vulnox]

As others have said, I hope they decide to do a panel upgrade. If expense is an issue they should check for state programs that may make it easier.

When we had solar installed, we found out our state has a program called "MISaves" that offers state backed loans for energy efficiency improvements to your home. The rates, at the time, were great. I imagine they are still good now, but rates are up in general so I doubt they would be as good, but probably better than most personal loans or CCs.

We had solar installed and upgraded our panel to 200 amp since our home had 200 amp service, but was built before that was put in so only had a 125 panel (or 150, I don't recall now). Was so nice to have the panel and solar done, and the loan rate was 3.25% which is pretty solid. The price to install the panel went up compared to when we first looked in 2016 of course, it was about $2300 if I recall and we were quoted $1600 in 2016. Mainly due to, when we actually had it done, breakers were in shorter supply. But we have expansion room to spare now.

 

[Ming]

Charge point chargers can restrict access if the owner doesn't want public use of their chargers. Those chargers are not visible in the app unless you have the code for them.
Some don't require code but can still be private and not show up in the app.

I would guess if it's showing up in the app and you can activate the charger, they are open to public use.

 

[SV8T]

If my EVSE was installed outdoors and I was worried about unauthorized users, I‘d only install a smart EVSE that can be easily disabled as needed. Even with a dumb EVSE you can flip the breaker off when you’re not charging.

You are correct...but missed the point.

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