Stop Safely Now (HVBJB): Mach-E Owners Biggest Fear - Facts and Info Thread

[DevSecOps]

I have inserted some of the numbers here. The amps required for steady cruising at any given speed don't depend strongly on the model of Mach E. These numbers are for an AWD SR vehicle. The main factor as speed rises is the aerodynamic drag on the car which will be very similar for all models. Of course, when accelerating or climbing there will be additional power required and therefore higher amps flowing.

See the section for DCFC. Models like the GT can charge up to 150kW which is 395A at 380V. You mention observations of 450A. If the battery voltage at a low SoC was something like 333V then 450A would deliver 150kW. Does anyone have measurements of battery voltage versus SoC?

See the section on Maximum Power. The published maximum power of the GT is 358kW which, at a battery voltage of 380V, will require 942A of current. With a low SoC battery at 333V that would require 1075A which ties in with the observation of current values up to 1100 amps. Remember, however, that the HVBJB contains inline fuses rated at 630A for the rear motor and 350A for the front motor = 980A total. Of course, no fuse blows at its rated value but 1100A is 7.5% over the total rated fused current.

It would be interesting to know if the program logic of the inverters and the DCFC controller compensate for the different battery voltage at different SoC and allow more amps to flow at lower battery voltage than at higher battery voltage and so maintain the same maximum power.

Speed, xdot	mph	m / s	F road / lbf	F road / N	P road / W	P road / kW	Efficiency / miles per kWh	Amps / A
	0​	0​	32​	142​	0​	0.0​		0​
	10​	4.470272687​	38​	168​	752​	0.8​	13.3​	2​
	20​	8.940545373​	48​	212​	1896​	1.9​	10.5​	5​
	30​	13.41081806​	61​	273​	3664​	3.7​	8.2​	10​
	40​	17.88109075​	79​	352​	6291​	6.3​	6.4​	17​
	50​	22.35136343​	101​	448​	10008​	10.0​	5.0​	26​
	60​	26.82163612​	126​	561​	15051​	15.1​	4.0​	40​
	70​	31.29190881​	156​	692​	21652​	21.7​	3.2​	57​
	80​	35.76218149​	189​	840​	30045​	30.0​	2.7​	79​
	90​	40.23245418​	226​	1006​	40462​	40.5​	2.2​	106​
	100​	44.70272687​	267​	1189​	53138​	53.1​	1.9​	140​
	110​	49.17299955​	312​	1389​	68306​	68.3​	1.6​	180​
DCFC						DCFC rate / kW
						50​		132​
						115​		303​
						150​		395​
Maximum power
Mach E RWD SR						198​		521​
Mach E AWD SR						198​		521​
Mach E RWD ER						216​		568​
Mach E AWD ER						258​		679​
Mach E GT						358​		942​
Mach E GTPE						358​		942​

If you check here you can see all the data on amps at HVBJB failure. I don't think amps while cruising along at a steady pace or going downhill has ever been an issue. Most of the time people report that the failures happen while overtaking a vehicle or going up inclines which would not be cruise control gliding down the highway. The instances of failure typically have a component of high speed with resistance or acceleration.

The specs you're referencing are slightly wrong which is likely why some of your numbers are off. For example the MME can exceed 150kw for short periods and it's not relative to SOC. The DCFC chargers have an initial burst amperage that feed the car up to about 430-450A at 360-380 nominal volts which get it into the 160-170kw range. This only lasts for a about 90 seconds and requires a higher amperage DCFC station.

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[dtbaker61]

Your numbers are WAYYYY off. I suggest you do some digging around on the forum as all of the amperage data is provided in a number of places. The MME GT can get up to 1100 amps while in motion and DCFC will max at about 450amps but the 300s is where it holds for most of a charge.

you will find that motor amps/volts are essentially opposite of battery amps/volts and change with speed. The amps are only a clue..... it's the actual temperature that seems to be the killer.

so, you are both correct.

I' maintain that high sustained kW (going in OR out) raise the internal temp of the uncooled HVBJB and bus bars the contactors are attached to. This explains why there are multiple failure modes.

 

[Arjan]

clearing codes and doing software updates is NOT a fix.
Insist that they initiate HVBJB remove/replace, order the part, and let you know when they can schedule the replacement.

Did exactly that yesterday! Still waiting on confirmation for that.

 

[Arjan]

They should have replaced it under TSB 22-2178

Interesting development:
So i asked to replace the part under this number, but according to the dealer (and they called Ford NL) it is not available in my country. But i am assuming not available in Europe.

They told me to wait until a second error occurs and left me at that.

Is there anything you guys can do with the BEV team ?

 

[i8iridium]

Is it measuring the amperage draw of the motors before or after the inverters? That might add a little fudge factor in the numbers there.

 

[Anton]

My car is at the dealer as of this morning with the SVS message and the HVB failure. Got a rental vehicle scheduled for pick up tomorrow. Had to call corporate and make a case with them to make sure that I got that rental. When I asked the tech advisor, she said "no, we don't do rentals". Well apparently they do.

Working with Ford service advisors is a mess. They don't know jack squat. I tell them all the info, which error code I got when running the vin, and which TSB references this error. It took me a couple minutes of pleading to have her even scribble a reference to the TSB on the service paperwork.

Just checked my vehicle status. Shows no errors. I assume they cleared it. If tomorrow they try to tell me that the vehicle is ready for pick up, then I won't be picking it up until they replace out the HVBJB (and show proof of having done it, is that possible?).

 

[machme]

My car is at the dealer as of this morning with the SVS message and the HVB failure. Got a rental vehicle scheduled for pick up tomorrow. Had to call corporate and make a case with them to make sure that I got that rental. When I asked the tech advisor, she said "no, we don't do rentals". Well apparently they do.

Working with Ford service advisors is a mess. They don't know jack squat. I tell them all the info, which error code I got when running the vin, and which TSB references this error. It took me a couple minutes of pleading to have her even scribble a reference to the TSB on the service paperwork.

Just checked my vehicle status. Shows no errors. I assume they cleared it. If tomorrow they try to tell me that the vehicle is ready for pick up, then I won't be picking it up until they replace out the HVBJB (and show proof of having done it, is that possible?).

Just went through it. I provided the BEV team and dealership service manager with the DTC data I pulled from the car and their own TSB. Took forever but I insisted on them replacing the HVBJB.

 

[Anton]

Just went through it. I provided the BEV team and dealership service manager with the DTC data I pulled from the car and their own TSB. Took forever but I insisted on them replacing the HVBJB.

How do you communicate with the BEV team? Just call the corporate number and ask for BEV?

How did you provide them the info? Just mention the failure code? Or is there something more official you can provide?

 

[alangant]

How do you communicate with the BEV team? Just call the corporate number and ask for BEV?

How did you provide them the info? Just mention the failure code? Or is there something more official you can provide?

The first post on this thread is the best source for all HVBJB info (thanks @DevSecOps !)

 

[pr3dict]

Just checked my vehicle status. Shows no errors. I assume they cleared it. If tomorrow they try to tell me that the vehicle is ready for pick up, then I won't be picking it up until they replace out the HVBJB (and show proof of having done it, is that possible?).

Just went through it. I provided the BEV team and dealership service manager with the DTC data I pulled from the car and their own TSB. Took forever but I insisted on them replacing the HVBJB.

Mine has been sitting at my dealer for 2 weeks. Listen to this mess... TLDR at the bottom.

1. Saturday
   1. After getting the issue on a Saturday I looked up here what the problem was.
2. Monday
   1. I called the dealership to be like listen this is the issue when can I bring it in. They said they wont have time for 2 weeks and I cant be right about the issue because there is no open recalls...
   2. Called corporate and started a case and they advised me to find a dealer that had open service appointment sooner but no help other then sorry cant help you or transfer you to BEV until your car is at the dealership. Also mentioned not having an open recall.
   3. Spoke with the team here on the website and they told me to tell the dealership about the TSB and that they should be able to remotely diagnose the issue and order the part.
   4. Called the dealership again and advised them of the TSB... Finally service manager said that they ordered the part and that they would keep my regularly scheduled 10k maintenance appointment for the next upcoming Saturday where they will do a tire rotation and then give the car back to me...
   5. I Laughed and told them they were not giving the vehicle back until this was fixed and that I didn't think they were grasping the gravity of how broken the car was...
3. Tuesday
   1. I needed a rental and the dealership said sorry not sorry but the people they use at enterprise are too busy for rentals for another few days and they cant help me with any other place, oh and it was going to cost me $15/day even though they would pitch in $30.... Ford essentially tried to help enterprise sell their insurance, etc. which is why it was $45 even though they had a negotiated rate for lower.
   2. I went to the dealership to drop the car off unannounced and they nicely gave me ride to Hertz where I have been paying out of pocket for a rental and will submit for reimbursements w/ Ford corporate.
   3. Gave the info to the team here on the website about my case and where the car is etc. They did something in the background or something that is supposed to help have my dealership make this go smoother...
4. Wednesday
   1. I get a text message from the dealership saying they aren't sure what the problem is but they are still looking into it but that they are probably going to need to keep my car another day. I just say thanks because Im sick of one arm not talking to the other and obviously nobody is talking to each other.
5. Thursday
   1. I get another text message from the service advisor saying they finally figured it out and the parts are ordered but they are on a backorder with no eta.
   2. I respond back confused and annoyed because I was told by the dealership the parts were ordered on Monday...
   3. Dealership - *Shrug*
6. Second Tuesday (1 week)
   1. Texted the dealership, hey any update?
   2. Dealership - Parts says still on backorder.
7. Second Friday (1 and half weeks)
   1. Called Ford corporate to speak with the BEV team about getting my gas reimbursed like I see others have received on the forums.
   2. Ford corporate - Oh it seems the case number you have has been closed because you called us before you went to the dealership and we only advance cases that have cars at dealerships.. But no worries, I've created a new case for you and your case manager will call you in 24 hours but because its Friday that means they will call you on Monday.
   3. Me - This is a fun journey, thank you!
8. Third Tuesday(2 weeks) (Yesterday, 10/4)
   1. Texted the dealership, hey any update?
   2. Dealership - Parts says still on backorder.
   3. Okkkkkkkk It's been over 24 hours at this point and still no contact from Ford Corporate
   4. Called Ford again and asked to speak with my Case manager.....
   5. Spoke with someone right in the beginning that was like Hey dummy we have this BEV team you should be speaking with, don't you know that? Let me get you over to them. She instantly transferred me and I spoke with my now assigned case manager
   6. She was nice and told me that the dealership was never going to get my part in because there is a certain way it needs to be ordered.
      1. Some weird handshake backchannel thing.
      2. Basically told me that there is no "backorder", just not enough of them to go around? Whatever that means... Sounds like a backorder to me.
   7. She said she was going call the dealership to "give them the information to order it correctly"
      1. This scared me again because these games of telephone seeems like are getting messed up and I cant help but think just leading these horses to water is not going to make them drink. They've already walked away from what was right in front of them multiple times
   8. She also said she would pay for the gas so I'm keeping receipts now.
   9. Dealership texted me and told me that they spoke with customer service and they sent all my info to them. Also asked if I needed a rental. I told them I'd keep the current one I have until 10/18 because I cannot keep my rental longer then a month. I have a negotiated rate through my work that Im using but its only good for a month.
9. Third Wednesday (Today)
   1. I just woke up on the couch about a half hour ago after falling asleep watching House of Dragon. I saw this post and decided to spill it out there for the internet to see.
   2. And well, here we are.

If you are still here, thank you for taking that journey with me. It's still ongoing so we'll see what happens next.

TLDR: Charlie Chaplin once entered a "Charlie Chaplin look-alike" contest in Monte Carlo and came in third.

 

[Anton]

Thanks @pr3dict . Sounds like I need to get through to somebody on the BEV team ASAP.

 

[machme]

The first post on this thread is the best source for all HVBJB info (thanks @DevSecOps !)

And reach out to @DevSecOps & @Gimme_my_MME they were a big help with my issue

 

[Richard L.]

I’ve been following this thread because I’m also driving a ticking time bomb. When the failures started early on, repairs for the most part were fairly expedient. Dealers cooperated and parts were readily available. As this problem rears its ugly head, negative posts are becoming the norm. Ford and dealers showing little concern. Parts back ordered. When and if I experience the failure, Ford and dealer response will dictate my next move. I currently hold a reservation for a Chevy Blazer SS EV. Can GM do a better job? I don’t know but Ford has certainly proven it can’t.

 

[mustangtangtang]

Sounds exactly like my “journey” with Ford/local dealer and Ford’s Customer “Care”! The local dealer, Lithia Ford of Fresno, has never called me, only texts, and even Ford Customer “Care” cannot reach them by phone.

Took a week before the dealer sends a text saying a rental was approved, then had Enterprise call me direct to let me know to come on down. Arrive and was advised I needed some “half sheet” from the dealer, which NOBODY from Enterprise ever let me know. Enterprise repeatedly tried calling the dealer who wouldn’t answer, then repeatedly tried emailing the advisor; no dice!!

An hour goes by and I call Customer Care, give them my case # and am told “that number has been closed, I’ll need to open a new one”!!!! They couldn’t give a reason why, but not shocked… I listen to the lady try repeatedly to get the dealer on the line; no dice. I explain that it’s nice to know they have no better luck getting someone and she isn’t amused.

TWO hours later, the dealer sends a fax(!) to Enterprise, and off I go.

I fire off another email to the head of Ford Customer care just to get the latest dilema off my chest and, just as before, will not hold my breath for a response.

I currently have my 22 MME Premium ER at the same dealership. The first time I brought it in, they said they fixed it by "fixing a wiring harness that was loose". I got the car back and the same issue came up in a week. The second time the issue came up, I got the SVS and it wouldn't even start up. I had to have the car towed. I kept in touch with my service advisor and representative from the BEV team at Ford. They have kept my car at the dealership for 2.5 weeks now. They told me that they have parts on order and hopefully have the car ready by today or tomorrow IF the parts came in yesterday. Haven't heard anything yet but I will keep you updated.

 

[Neil4Real]

I’ve been following this thread because I’m also driving a ticking time bomb. When the failures started early on, repairs for the most part were fairly expedient. Dealers cooperated and parts were readily available. As this problem rears its ugly head, negative posts are becoming the norm. Ford and dealers showing little concern. Parts back ordered. When and if I experience the failure, Ford and dealer response will dictate my next move. I currently hold a reservation for a Chevy Blazer SS EV. Can GM do a better job? I don’t know but Ford has certainly proven it can’t.

Except you're pretty wrong on "dealers cooperated and parts were readily available" at the beginning.

It has been the same since the beginning. Mine was one of the first failures after the recall software came out. My dealer knew I knew a Ford operations exec and that engineers on here were trying to give me a hand and still tried to just clear the codes and give me the car back.

If you follow @DevSecOps advice on the first page, you'll be fine. The hardest part right now, it seems, is being persistent with Ford corporate and getting the BEV team ASAP. This is one thing that they were doing a better job at but now they either have no idea who the BEV team is or something. @DevSecOps also has an amazing map where you can check which dealers have done the work.

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