The major weakness of the MME (and all non-Tesla EVs) -- reliable, robust charging network doesn't exist

[dtbaker61]

Here's hoping the Inflation Reduction Act inflates the number of reliable chargers on the road. Until then, I can't wait for Tesla to open up the supercharger network.

Fast chargers will pop up every 50 miles along Interstates over the next 2 years.... Huge 'NEVI' grant program will make that possible by lowering cost enough to make it reasonable for station owners.

However, my bet is that rural roadtrips will 'problematic' unless EV drivers can adjust their expectations to accept around 50kw as the fastest they are likely to find. Reason being is rural areas have very 'thin' infrastructure on given transmission lines.... and they will have a lot of trouble with 150kW loads coming on/off the line, and many areas simply do not have 3-phase available within a reasonable distance to where you could put a charger.

The only way around it is to add big batteries at the charge stations to 'buffer up' at <50kw.... and blast out a charge at 150kW when requested. But, then the station owner has to buy a huge battery up front. Certainly possible, but not exactly the standard design yet.

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[dbsb3233]

It doesn't matter how stylish or well built your EV is if you can't reliably charge on the road. The promising thing about NEVI is it has the possibility of making these charging stations an amenity instead of a direct revenue generator because the sites will be owned and operated by the business located at that spot. It will take 5 or 10 years though...

Sort of like most volume gas stations now, provided by Costco, Sams Club, Walmart, grocery chains, 7-11, and other stores. That's where most people gas up now. The days of the old corner service station that only sell gas and fixes cars are mostly behind us. The profit margin on the gasoline itself is nearly zero.

Not sure if we might see host business owned DCFC in the future like that. Maybe. Right now it just doesn't work unless heavily taxpayer subsidized. Or billions in Dieselgate fines. Or subsidized from Tesla car purchases. Although Tesla finally has the volume now that they might be approaching break-even on DCFC. CCS volume still has a long way to go to. And will remain scattered with many players as vs Tesla's monolithic approach.

DCFC pricing likely has to go up a lot too to be self-supporting. It's low now mostly from heavy taxpayer subsidy.

 

[Logal727]

I’m on our first road trip with the Mach E. Not as far as some folks here, but still need to charge a few times. We did about 400 miles one-way, plus local driving. Finding a fast charger on the way down was fine; though it was a couple miles off the highway. But our final destination is a touristy area, otherwise in the middle of no where. There are a few L2 chargers around, but no dcfc close by…except the Tesla Supercharger.

Our hotel has one L2, and of course when I got here there was a PHEV using it. His car was done charging around 8pm, but he stayed plugged in till morning. I did leave him a note and he plugged me in the next morning. He and I have been doing a bit of a dance with the charger since then, and texting about its availability.

This is all to say this is possible…but I couldn’t imagine my parents, or worse, my EV-hating in-laws actually doing this.

People couldn't imagine not riding horses and not picking up horse shit either lol. They'll adapt or they won't.

 

[SnBGC]

Sort of like most volume gas stations now, provided by Costco, Sams Club, Walmart, grocery chains, 7-11, and other stores. That's where most people gas up now. The days of the old corner service station that only sell gas and fixes cars are mostly behind us. The profit margin on the gasoline itself is nearly zero.

Not sure if we might see host business owned DCFC in the future like that. Maybe. Right now it just doesn't work unless heavily taxpayer subsidized. Or billions in Dieselgate fines. Or subsidized from Tesla car purchases. Although Tesla finally has the volume now that they might be approaching break-even on DCFC. CCS volume still has a long way to go to. And will remain scattered with many players as vs Tesla's monolithic approach.

DCFC pricing likely has to go up a lot too to be self-supporting. It's low now mostly from heavy taxpayer subsidy.

That last paragraph is important. The NEVI sites require at least a 20% financial commitment. In fact, most are 100% up front and then a rebate of up to 80% comes after the site is completed.

Because all the NEVI sites will be privately owned.....expect a wide range of pricing. If we think 30 cents per kWh is a lot now, wait until we see the pricing that these business owners place on those things. If you want to charge on the road then expect to pay handsomely.

 

[Logal727]

I just did a recent road trip up the east coast from Florida to NY. I was pleasantly surprised at the state of DCFC. I’ll keep it short.

EA stations were about 95% working. At most of my stops, all of the units were operable. That’s up a lot from the last trip.

I was surprised to see some EA’s with 6 or 8 units.

In general, the EA’s weren’t overcrowded either - never had to wait.

I was successful in activating EVGo’s Autocharge on the second try - the first unit wouldn’t talk to the car but I switched and it all worked. I used it at Normandy Square in Jacksonville on the way home and it worked as advertised. It’s a little pricy but I do like the simplicity.

The one negative was hotel charging. The current status quo seems to be two plugs - some work and get occupied early and some are old and broken. I think the volume of EV’s could use an upgrade to at least 4 plugs if they want to offer that as an amenity.

Florida seems to be OK even though it's 2nd place in EV ownership behind California, it's very heavily weighted to Teslas though so those folks will be using SC. I think that's why we've got it pretty easy over here, though, that just means they may be slower to expand and add stations, which they really need one more over here in Pinellas and Tampa.

 

[Stevey]

Some very good points. It would be nice if the stations included a simple NEMA 14-50 backup (no extra equipment, no software, no billing) that people could use their mobile charger. Yes, terrible experience, but I would rather sit there for a couple hours than try to find an alternative and pray I can make it.

 

[dbsb3233]

Don't know exactly where you live, but in driving from 2 hours west of Charlotte to Chattanooga, your issue is probably "the scenic route". You can swing up through Knoxville, or drive south through Brevard, and Franklin, TN, but you can't do much else. I'm sure you've used A Better Route Planner, and PlugShare, to explore your options?



Seems like a process guaranteed to be frustrating and/or waste a lot of time.

Just the opposite of frustrating for me. It's comforting knowing the route and the options and the backups. Much more peace of mind than just getting in the car and trusting it's choices with no backups identified if a station is down or full when I get there. Choices that may require apps and payment I'm not ready for, that may be just 50kw instead of 100+, that may not even be compatible with the MME (like Efacec machines), etc.

Yes, it does take some time to pre-plan. But that's OK, I'm a natural trip planner anyway. And retired. But I know that's not everyone's cup of tea.

 

[ADDZ71]

Don't know exactly where you live, but in driving from 2 hours west of Charlotte to Chattanooga, your issue is probably "the scenic route". You can swing up through Knoxville, or drive south through Brevard, and Franklin, TN, but you can't do much else. I'm sure you've used A Better Route Planner, and PlugShare, to explore your options?



Seems like a process guaranteed to be frustrating and/or waste a lot of time.

Oh yeah - I would go the north route and stop along I-40 but the extra mileage combined with charging time makes it doubly painful. Brevard to Charleston, TN.

 

[Cm12]

New Haven to Westerly is 60 miles and to Newport is 100 miles. You really need a dcfc en route?

We did a trip from NJ to Westerly this summer. We picked up the Mach E the day we came back, but in planning for the trip I looked into taking the Mach E (in case we got it in time) and it seemed quite doable.

Round trip, I’d definitely need DCFC in cold temps. My estimated 211 miles of range in the SR is more like 120-130 in the cold. In just cool temps of 45-50 I can only get about 150 miles. The ER battery would be very useful in cold weather. Sometimes I wanna make the 70 miles drive to the Oregon coast for a day trip and there is no DCFC along the way. There isn’t even reliable public L2 charging in popular places on the coast (almost learned the hard way on that one). Unless it’s summer, I can’t take the Mach E because I can’t make it 140 miles.

 

[dtbaker61]

Some very good points. It would be nice if the stations included a simple NEMA 14-50 backup (no extra equipment, no software, no billing) that people could use their mobile charger. Yes, terrible experience, but I would rather sit there for a couple hours than try to find an alternative and pray I can make it.

This is where I think the 'roadside rural businesses' will go.... What a great way to capture someone for an hour at your shop, right ?!

But not good for a traveller trying to cover 500 miles in a day.

 

[available_username2]

if you can't figure out how to take road trip in an EV in California that's just user error. Yeah you don't get your hand held like in a tesla, but it's really not that difficult.

 

[dbsb3233]

That last paragraph is important. The NEVI sites require at least a 20% financial commitment. In fact, most are 100% up front and then a rebate of up to 80% comes after the site is completed.

Because all the NEVI sites will be privately owned.....expect a wide range of pricing. If we think 30 cents per kWh is a lot now, wait until we see the pricing that these business owners place on those things. If you want to charge on the road then expect to pay handsomely.

Yep. People often make the mistake of thinking "I only pay 10 cents for electricity at home, so 43c at EA is expensive!!". Nope, most of what they're paying for when charging at a 350kW charger along I-70 in the middle of Kansas is not the electricity, it's the equipment and installation and maintenance and to GET 350kW of electricity to remote locations. And to keep the process thermally controlled, to interface properly with the car, for payment processing, 24x7 assistance, etc etc etc. The vast majority of the cost is in the SERVICE they're getting for it being located where they need it, not the electricity itself.

 

[available_username2]

New Haven CT to Westerly RI on I-95 is a fast charger desert. They are just starting to install fast chargers. When I go to Newport RI I take my ‘17 Accord Hybrid.

a 64 mile drive? Why do you need to charge at all?

 

[ShaggySS]

This thread title is wrong, it's not a MME issue. Maybe...
The Major Weakness of non tesla EV's
EV's without a reliable charging network suck at long distances (without proper planning)
Man was given gasoline for long-distance travel

Just a few ideas for next time

 

[RickMachE]

Oh yeah - I would go the north route and stop along I-40 but the extra mileage combined with charging time makes it doubly painful. Brevard to Charleston, TN.

It's interesting. If you put in that route to GoogleMaps, the SHORTEST DRIVE TIME is the northern route, at 3:26 and 211 miles. The southern route comes up as 3:46 and 167 miles, and the middle route at 4:01 and 199 miles.

Of course if you leave with 100% charge, have an ER, and aren't blasting the heat, you don't need to charge on the southern route, do you? Franklin, TN shows two 80kW chargers.

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