The major weakness of the MME (and all non-Tesla EVs) -- reliable, robust charging network doesn't exist

[dmastro]

This goes for all non-Tesla EVs. You can make the best EV in the world, but it's near useless to take outside it's single-charge range if a reliable, robust charging network doesn't exist.

Being in NorCal with chargers located all over, my wife decided to take the MME from Sac to San Fran yesterday. She needed to stop on the way home last night - late night around 1AM. First stop in Vacaville had only 4 fast chargers (no stop on her route had more than 4), and when she showed up none were working.

Second stop, 1 wasn't working, the other one was charging at 6kW. The fact that neither the MME or FordPass app display the charging rate is another store altogether.

Third stop she was able to charge at 48kW long enough to get the range she needed to get home.

It goes without saying that we're taking the Tesla down to Anaheim this week. Many well-located charging stations with dozens of well-maintained chargers that will hit our 250kW max acceptance rate. She's already considering trading the MME for another Tesla.

Here's hoping the Inflation Reduction Act inflates the number of reliable chargers on the road. Until then, I can't wait for Tesla to open up the supercharger network.

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[jpp44345]

I don't think you have discovered anything new. Just like people still get stranded without gas in the middle of nowhere, people will get stranded without chargers. This will be always be true. Even decades from now when most cars on the road are EVs. Tesla should be credited with building a robust network. That does not mean Tesla drivers never get stuck. I have seen long lines at Tesla chargers here in LA even in the middle of the day. Just the reality we have to live with. My hope is that this will continue to improve as EV adoption increases.

 

[voxel]

I never heard of Vacaville until this video and I see you weren’t the only person with issues at that charger location.



Road trips make up 3-5% of an EVs usage (at least for me) so inconvenience once every two months isn’t a huge deal. I still prefer ICE for road trips though (DC charging isn’t cheaper either).

 

[sborsch]

I’ve read through the California and Minnesota plans (I’m originally from MN) and they are night and day. MN’s is an interstate highway only plan and CA‘s is very robust.

The states in between are kind of a crapshoot (e.g., Utah, Montana, Wyoming, Nevada) so I predict the infrastructure adventure will take a *minimum* of one year and more likely 2-3 years before competing networks are robust enough to make road trips super-easy to do.

Not holding my breath though.

That said, while Tesla’s are good and their charging infrastructure is a huge competitive advantage, they’ve becoming boring to me (I see dozens of them a day out here in CA) and it doesn’t help that Musk acts like a 12-year-old who ate too much sugar and I don’t trust him and thus Tesla (for cars…I do own two Tesla batteries for my solar).

 

[Ravensfan1996]

Yep it’s an issue, but in the meantime, do you use plugshare app? It can tell you if the stations are down or issues. When i roadtrip i pre plan my stops and use plugshare to weed out any chargers that may not be working.

 

[phil]

Long-distance driving is why God gave us gasoline.

 

[sotek2345]

This seems to be a very regional thing. We have had no major issues in the Northeast. Did they use different model chargers in different parts of the country?

 

[Motomax]

Which chargers did you go to? The EA chargers in Vacaville have more than 4 chargers. EVgo has 4 150/350k chargers in Vacaville plus 50k chargers in Vacaville and the neighboring cities.

I’ve only fast charged once and it was at EA in Vacaville.Granted the touch screens don’t work (sun probably cooked them), but authenticating with the ford app or the EA app worked just fine.

 

[ridgebackpilot]

@dmastro You've flagged a significant issue. As a former Tesla owner who has traveled all over the American West in my EVs, I can tell you Tesla's Supercharger network makes a huge difference.

My wife regularly drives our MME Premium between San Francisco, Carmel, and San Luis Obispo. It's rare for her to find an Electrify America location where all the charging stations are working. At Tesla Superchargers, it's rare to find one that's not working. Often, as a result, my wife has to wait to use the one or two stations that happen to be working.

This problem is only getting worse as more are more EVs are sold in California. I realize EA is getting infrastructure grant funding and installing new and presumably better charging units. But if they don't improve the reliability of their system soon, they're not going to have many customers left. About the only positive thing I can say for EA is that they're more reliable than EVGo, whose chargers never seem to work at all...!

EA has been trying to curry favor with complimentary charges for a while. But that only works for a limited time and they shouldn't have to do it anyway.

 

[21st Century Pony]

@dmastro You've flagged a significant issue. As a former Tesla owner who has traveled all over the American West in my EVs, I can tell you Tesla's Supercharger network makes a huge difference.

My wife regularly drives our MME Premium between San Francisco, Carmel, and San Luis Obispo. It's rare for her to find an Electrify America location where all the charging stations are working. At Tesla Superchargers, it's rare to find one that's not working. Often, as a result, my wife has to wait to use the one or two stations that happen to be working.

This problem is only getting worse as more are more EVs are sold in California. I realize EA is getting infrastructure grant funding and installing new and presumably better charging units. But if they don't improve the reliability of their system soon, they're not going to have many customers left. About the only positive thing I can say for EA is that they're more reliable than EVGo, whose chargers never seem to work at all...!

EA has been trying to curry favor with complimentary charges for a while. But that only works for a limited time and they shouldn't have to do it anyway.

Things seem to vary per region.

 

[dbsb3233]

I've done 20,000 miles of road tripping now across 6 western states from CO to CA in our Mach-E, and only failed to get a fast charge twice in over 100 DCFCs. But it really can vary. And takes pre-planning and research of backup options to feel comfortable.

And it does seem to be getting worse at EA lately instead of better. Although part of that is because stations are busier, making broken chargers a bigger issue.

 

[NewGuy]

I’m on our first road trip with the Mach E. Not as far as some folks here, but still need to charge a few times. We did about 400 miles one-way, plus local driving. Finding a fast charger on the way down was fine; though it was a couple miles off the highway. But our final destination is a touristy area, otherwise in the middle of no where. There are a few L2 chargers around, but no dcfc close by…except the Tesla Supercharger.

Our hotel has one L2, and of course when I got here there was a PHEV using it. His car was done charging around 8pm, but he stayed plugged in till morning. I did leave him a note and he plugged me in the next morning. He and I have been doing a bit of a dance with the charger since then, and texting about its availability.

This is all to say this is possible…but I couldn’t imagine my parents, or worse, my EV-hating in-laws actually doing this.

 

[MellowJohnny]

Maybe the wrong people are trying to build out the networks.

In the early years oil companies realised there was money to be made in selling gas, and they built out their own network of stations. We don’t buy gas from Ford or GM.

Electric utilities could do the same. Quebec’s provincial utility (Hydro Québec) runs a DCFC network called The Electric Circuit (Le Circuit Électrique) and has been for 10 years now. BC Hydro has done something similar. Utilities are in the business of selling electricity - kinda makes sense for them to do it rather than VW or small start-ups like ChargePoint.

Maybe history will repeat itself.

(I’ll go make some popcorn now…)

 

[ChuckA]

This seems to be a very regional thing. We have had no major issues in the Northeast. Did they use different model chargers in different parts of the country?

New Haven CT to Westerly RI on I-95 is a fast charger desert. They are just starting to install fast chargers. When I go to Newport RI I take my ‘17 Accord Hybrid.

 

[MnSparty38]

Still waiting for mine, so no first hand experience with this challenge yet. Agree that 98% of the time I’ll be charging from my own garage.

where I’m most disappointed in these threads is the spiderweb of apps needed, and where real time state of the chargers are not made available to those traveling that route.

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