Model Y is now cheaper than a 2023 Premium AWD ER

[bburk00]

Many people make more than $150k/yr.

Especially those buying $70k new vehicles.

Plus “Many” May turn into “Everyone” when it comes to the full credit next year. It may turn out no one gets the full $7500 on the Mach E when they finally tell us the rules around March 2023.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car...at-qualify-for-new-ev-tax-credit-a9310530660/

Either way, you math question on the $15k difference should be answered.

The $150k/yr is only for single filers. It's $300k/yr for married filing jointly. Which a lot more people would qualify for than filing single.

I've had a 2021 MYP and sold it in January to order my 2022 GTPE. Then my dealership told me it would be 6 months to get the GTPE, so I ordered another MYP this time a 2022 as an in between car and received it within 28 days.. The build quality was atrocious. I had multiple large dents in it, every panel on the car's exterior had deep paint swirl marks. Multiple inside trim pieces came off on a regular basis that mobile service could not get fixed correctly.

When my 2022 GTPE came in (in July), I told my wife I would check it out and if it had no issues I would trade the 2022 MYP in for it. Guess what, absolutely flawless.

The other issues that people aren't mentioning are the phantom breaking that plagues Tesla cars without radar, that rely on vision only. We would be driving on the interstate at 75 then all of the sudden the car would slam on the breaks for absolutely no reason. We almost got rear-ended multiple times.

Also FSD still REQUIRES you to hold onto the wheel. Yeah you can trick the system by putting a weight on it but Tesla likes to put people in FSD jail for other motorist doing stuff wrong on the road, like cutting you off. So you are blocked from using FSD until you park, exit and walk away from the car.

As far as range, my GTPE is getting the same as my MYP did (winter and summer). I just recently went on a road trip to Georgia from PA and had the same efficiency. The only down side was EA compared to Superchargers, but the GTPE was considerably more relaxing to drive because I could let go of the wheel.

Mobil Service for Tesla, at least in my area, sucks. Every issue you have they try to charge you for, so you are always proving it is an issue with the car and should be under warranty. I've never once had an issue with any Ford I've owned getting anything fixed under warranty. The multiple trim pieces coming off, mentioned above, required me to fight with them every time I opened a ticket.

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[generaltso]

Fsd is nothing more than level 2 as stated by Tedla own legal team.

I didn’t say it was. I just stated what it costs.

 

[J-orange]

The autopilot on a Model S is quite superior. BC, autopilot and adaptive cruise control are very similar to me. BC would be better when lane change is rolled out. MY with enhanced autopilot ($5k) should be comparable to BC with lane change.

I think Ford should throw in some incentives for owners and buyers. Two year EA charging would be nice. It sounds like a lot but I rarely charge at EA unless traveling. Alternative promotion could be fixed kw. Let's say 2-4k kw.

Then you can experience phantom braking and being plowed into or have a propensity to crash into fire trucks. All for the low-low price of 15 grand.

 

[awp0]

I've got the 7.2 generator on it and it will charge the mme @ 30 amps -- basically using the F150 to charge the MME comes out to ~21 MPG/E. It will put about 7kwh into the MME batt on 1 gallon of gas in 1 hour.

Hilarious fact: using that data, it would be cheaper to charge my MME with a gas generator compared to National Grid’s current Massachusetts electricity pricing. You can buy gas here for about $3.25 if you look for it, and NG’s electricity is .48/kWh (total, supply plus delivery).

 

[Mach1E]

Lots of confusion here --- Tesla is the most profitable automaker. They make ~30% profit per EV. Conventional auto companies (ford gm vw toyota) make ~12-15% on each vehicle.

They're also rapidly expanding. New factory / expansion doesn't mean the car isn't profitable. Taking massive debt and / or expanding like crazy isn't the same thing as having a profitable car. Tesla's costs continue to drop as well due to their huge castings. They're industry leading in profitability and they'll upgrade tooling without batting an eye.

Tesla's issues is one, the cars are dated. They've milked the current styling for all it's worth, well beyond what I'd personally own. Two, the center screen only is stupid. $20k car, understandable. $50k+, um nope. That's why they're so profitable though. They've been charging a premium for a stripped interior. Even today, brand new cars coming out of the factory are hit and miss on fit/gap/finish. Did I mention they're ugly? Repairs -- need warranty work, good luck.


When tesla gets the tax credit back, they're going to start to dominate the market even more. The 2023 MME pricing has gotten out of hand. 76k for a GTE (nor is the standard GT worth 70k). I hope they don't get dumb w/ the 2024 mustang pricing, might order one of those.

“Most profitable?” I guess that can mean many things. Sure, their gross profit margin is huge, but the volume is low and like you mentioned, lots of overhead right now.

But no, no confusion on my part. My post was just clarifying the confusion of the other person about federal tax credits vs the selling of carbon credits I was talking about.

FWIW, Tesla ranks 6th currently on the “most profit” list. Ford is 5th.

https://companiesmarketcap.com/automakers/most-profitable-automakers/

 

[KevinS]

There's a Hyundai dealer a block from my house and every time I go by I think that Ioniq5 looks like it is from the future.

There was a rumor quite some time ago that Hyundai was working with Apple to produce an Apple Car. It was then denied.

Looking at the lines of their electric cars, I am guessing either the Ioniq 5 or Ioniq 6 was going to be branded as a joint Hyundai/Apple project. The interior of the Ioniq 5 has a very Apple-like look to it.

 

[Vulnox]

Then you can experience phantom braking and being plowed into or have a propensity to crash into fire trucks. All for the low-low price of 15 grand.

Yeah Kyle did a couple test drives of FSD using his Model S Plaid, and while it did some impressive stuff, no doubt, it also tried to kill him a few times. More times than I would qualify as being "quite superior". My F-150 hasn't yet done anything in the thousands of BC and Adaptive Cruise miles I have put on it that would qualify as attempted homicide.




And before anyone tries to defend Tesla by saying "well yeah he ran it at night!". Kyle mentions several times that it may perform better during the day, but he didn't want as much traffic for when it did things like turn into oncoming traffic or stop mid-turn in an intersection. Plus, Tesla allows it to be used at night. If nighttime driving is what makes it dangerous then it shouldn't work at night. They allow it to be used at night, so it's fair game.

 

[johnmark]

Tesla is a toxic brand now. That's what happens when your megalomaniac narcissistic CEO decides to be Nazi adjacent. If I'm looking at alternatives to my MME it's Hyundai or Kia (sorry "KN" lol).

The fascism-adjacency problem would stop me from buying a Tesla at any price until they prove they've rectified it, eg. firing Melon Husk.

 

[generaltso]

Yeah Kyle did a couple test drives of FSD using his Model S Plaid, and while it did some impressive stuff, no doubt, it also tried to kill him a few times. More times than I would qualify as being "quite superior". My F-150 hasn't yet done anything in the thousands of BC and Adaptive Cruise miles I have put on it that would qualify as attempted homicide.

Look on the bright side. It’s only homicide if your death was caused by another person, not a machine.

 

[awp0]

Maybe it's just me, but I think the beauty of "hands-free Bluecruise" is the hands-free part. Otherwise it's pretty unimpressive. Because of the hands-free part, IMHO BlueCruise is superior to Autopilot (which I've used), at least on BC-enabled roads. But comparing it to FSD is kind of apples-oranges. With one you get a truly hands-free experience with simple capabilities, and with the other you get many many more autonomous capabilities which may or may not be confident and useful enough to you with a jaw-dropping cost. If I were buying a Tesla today, there's no way I'd pay $15k for FSD. For that money I'd expect true FSD, not a party trick to show off to my friends, and not an endless beta that never quite gets there.

 

[tfitzgex]

EPA range difference between the two gives the nod to the MY, but real world range testing back in 2021 demonstrated MME goes further in several videos.
Was the extra 10 grand for the MY self-driving/hands free factored in?
Was the MME free 2 years of EA charging factored in?

Don't get me wrong, I do hope Ford runs some kind of promotional, but it may depend more on the demand for the product (or lack thereof), more so than what the competition is doing.

wait what 2 years free EA?

 

[DennisD]

Well, from a lowly, poor, state employee, under $150K person, I can afford both my current $76K '22 Lightning Lariat and $56K '23 MME Premium.

Lightning will get me a $7500 tax credit for 2022 plus $3750 state/utility rebates which drops the cost to around $65K.

My incoming MME will be here next month and it gets a $6000 PCO + $7500 tax credit + $2000 state rebate = $40K net.

The definition of "afford" and "purchase" are two distinct differences.

I personally place a "car payment" amount into a separate account called "vehicle account". My mom told me when I was around 20 to buy a used car with cash and put a payment into a bank account every month of what a new car would have cost me. Wait around 3-4 years and the money that is now in the "vehicle account" is one that you can truly afford. No interest, no loan.

I took that advice and never borrowed when buying a car since then. (I am now 58 years old) If the cars that I was looking at were more than was in my account, I personally walked away and said I can't afford it yet. I now own a business (since 1998) and I purchase at least 1-2 vehicles every year but I still do this for self budgeting reasons. Let's just say it keeps me grounded.

I ordered my 2022 Premium AWD ER and paid MSRP close to 10 months after I ordered it. I am getting the $7,500 tax credit on my 2022 taxes that I will file and I took advantage of the X-Plan. Out the door cost will be a little north of 50K.

It sounds like you did your math and came out on the "good end" compared to some of our counterparts here on the forum that paid ADM's. Unless one is getting the full tax credit, I think the 2023's are way too high. I think the ADM's will drop with many dealers and EV's will need to level off here shortly. At the cost they are now, it really is a novelty and not a cost savings option IMHO.

 

[tfitzgex]

There's a Hyundai dealer a block from my house and every time I go by I think that Ioniq5 looks like it is from the future.

I think the ionic 5 looks like a 1987 chevy chevette.. you won't be able to unsee it.

 

[Space Ghost GT]

Somebody’s desperate. They’ve always been the most apathetic car company when it came to sales. Mehhh you’re lucky to get one because we have unlimited demand. Not anymore lol I’ve never gotten an email from them before even after test driving a model 3 and model s in 2019. Also in actual marketing speak this is targeted to D.I.M.W.A.D’s (dual income millennials with a dog).

 

[KevinS]

I think the ionic 5 looks like a 1987 chevy chevette.. you won't be able to unsee it.

You can play that game all day, chief.

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