EVGo Slow Charging Rates - even on 200kW stations

[jgillmer]

I live.in Northern Virginia.with many EVGo stations in the area. My MME GT goes no faster than 44 kW on their 50 kW chargers, and 73 kW on their 200 kW chargers - even when I'm the only one at the bank of chargers and even in near optimal temperatures (67 degrees the last time I used it). Is there a setting in the MME that is telling the charger to slow down or are the EVGo chargers coded to run that slow? It's a problem because they charge by the minute here.

Also, I have my account with them set up with the Pay as You Go plan and autocharge+. I have no trouble connecting (used to, but with the autocharge, it's no longer a problem). But I did notice that I don't think I'm being charged session fees. I don't want to chance moving to another plan and lose the benefit that, at least with current descriptions, includes a session fee. Anyone else have this situation? Perhaps I'm in a legacy plan?

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[Mach-Lee]

That's just how charging works. Because the Mach-E is a 400V architecture instead of a 800V architecture, the max speed we get will be less than half of a typical 1000V charger's kW rating.

44 kW is normal on a 125A cable.
73 kW is normal on a 200A cable.

I think the 200 kW EVgo stations use 200A cables so that makes complete sense. You'd need to use a 350 kW station to get more than 200A.

This is why I think we should label charging stations by amps instead of kilowatts.

 

[jgillmer]

That's just how charging works. Because the Mach-E is a 400V architecture instead of a 800V architecture, the max speed we get will be less than half of a typical 1000V charger's kW rating.

44 kW is normal on a 125A cable.
73 kW is normal on a 200A cable.

I think the 200 kW EVgo stations use 200A cables so that makes complete sense. You'd need to use a 350 kW station to get more than 200A.

This is why I think we should label charging stations by amps instead of kilowatts.

Interesting that I'm able to get 123 kW charge rate on the 150 kW EA stations.

 

[SWO]

It's the charger. I've used a 200kw EVGO unit and only charged at just over 70kw as well.

 

[SWO]

Interesting that I'm able to get 123 kW charge rate on the 150 kW EA stations.

The EA charger has a higher amperage.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Interesting that I'm able to get 123 kW charge rate on the 150 kW EA stations.

Because those EA stations use 350A cables. Yes, a 150 kW station can charge your car faster than a 200 kW station. This is why kW ratings are dumb, it's the amps that matters.

 

[Pioneer74]

Because the Mach-E is a 400V architecture instead of a 800V architecture

What is the pack voltage on the Mach-e? Isn't it closer to 350V?

 

[Vulnox]

Pay close attention to what is said above, the CABLES, not the station itself. Kyle Conner found a lot of this on new installs where the station is labeled 150+, but they cheap out on the cables and he runs into the same issue you are. You can have a station rating but under size the cable. Then they get to claim for tax purposes they installed a 350 station and pocket the savings by going with a lower power cable that may only ever work close to capacity for certain higher voltage EVs.

It's like putting a 1.0L Ecoboost into a Mustang GT instead of the 5.0L. You still have a very capable platform in the GT itself, but put an engine in that will perform "ok", but never allow the vehicle to live up to its capability. But you still drive around with a GT badge so everyone assumes you have the 5.0.

I don't know that all of them are intentionally doing such things, but even accidentally it's happening at a decent rate. Hopefully someone steps in before we have thousands of poor real life performing "fast" chargers. Yeah the automakers could go with higher voltage packs and components, but those come with costs to the consumer too generally and right now at least the MME and Lightning are market leaders in sales, so putting out stations that aren't good compatibility with them is just bad planning.

 

[4sallypat]

I live.in Northern Virginia.with many EVGo stations in the area. My MME GT goes no faster than 44 kW on their 50 kW chargers, and 73 kW on their 200 kW chargers - even when I'm the only one at the bank of chargers and even in near optimal temperatures (67 degrees the last time I used it). Is there a setting in the MME that is telling the charger to slow down or are the EVGo chargers coded to run that slow? It's a problem because they charge by the minute here.

Also, I have my account with them set up with the Pay as You Go plan and autocharge+. I have no trouble connecting (used to, but with the autocharge, it's no longer a problem). But I did notice that I don't think I'm being charged session fees. I don't want to chance moving to another plan and lose the benefit that, at least with current descriptions, includes a session fee. Anyone else have this situation? Perhaps I'm in a legacy plan?

Do you have the new Delta Ultrafast simultaneous HPC 350kW EVGo chargers ?

They have the 3 lightning bolts on the charger and those do not share load with another tower or cable.

They also have the Ultium Ready symbol on them.

We have lots of them here in So Cal and I now refuse to charge on the older 100kW EVGo chargers now that these Delta EVGo chargers are in place.

I get 170kW max peak rate charge on these.

I love EVGo AutoCharge+ - not only are they super fast, but it's true plug and charge without the need for your phone app.

Once I forgot my phone and was able to charge by just pulling up and plugging in.

 

[Vulnox]

What is the pack voltage on the Mach-e? Isn't it closer to 350V?

Yeah I think I saw measured around 370 for at least its "prime" 50-80% charge range. It's one of the lowest pack voltage mainstream EVs.

 

[Pioneer74]

I get 170kW max peak rate charge on these.

With your Lightning, right?

 

[bbulkow]

I wrote about exactly this on the end of my long question about why my mache was charging "slow" last week

Other responses are correct, here's more details

The 200kw EVGo chargers are "rated" that way because they have max 200A and max 1000V. The 150kw EA chargers max 375A and max 400V. These limits are either-or! Which ever you hit limits your charging. We have a 400v battery architecture so we can use all of a 150kw EA, and not much of a 200kw EVgo.

Evgo also has 100w units, I don't know their volt limit because I haven't connected to one yet.

This means, when connected to a 200kw EVGo charger, you'll max out the 200A limit @ about 355V and get about 70kw. If you're connected to an EA charger, you'll get 140kw (not the full 150kw because of the decreased voltage while low, and then the car will throttle its charging at higher SOC to avoid battery harm).

Makes sense but--- annoying, huh????

You can determine a charger's reported maximum volts and amps through ODB2 using CarScanner. The car's interface doesn't report it, nor does the charger itself in any way. Ford needs to be bugged into doing this, because people must know if slow charging is because the charger's maximum or the cars - they could have a simple page in charging saying whether the limit is caused by the car or the charger. I think someone said the Rivian does this, but I haven't seen myself. When limited by car, there are limits caused by battery architecture (the 400V limit) or by SOC & Temperature.

There's another wrinkle, which I haven't seen yet, which is a group of chargers may also have a power limit. Some of the new dual-handle chargers both handles can work at the same time, and they somehow split the available power if they have to. There might be a site limit too.

The final wrinkle is broken chargers. I found a 350kw, curious to see what would happen, and it charged me at 35kw. EVGo support said the charger was out of service (didn't say anything on the screen, connected fine, was shown as offline in the app, support says you must 100% of time check the exact charger in their app which is.... sigh). Since I have plug & go on EVGo, the idea that I have to pull up the app is just wrong-headed. In Carscanner, I could see the charger reporting it was generating a lot of amps but the car saying it wasn't, a sure sign the charger is confused not the car.

But the limits you're seeing are not a broken charger or your mache being broken. It's the nature of those 200kw EVGO chargers. Regrettably there are a lot near me. It's going to get worse when there are some 200kw that are 400v and some that are 1000v, so you can't tell before arriving whether you'll get a faster charge or not. Sure, 70kw is more than 45kw, but it's not 140kw by a long shot! You actually need to know rated volts and amps, not the KW. Or, any two out of three, you can calculate the third.

Want to check this yourself?

If you buy a bluetooth ODB2 dongle (I use the cheaper VEEPAK which doesn't work with FORSCAN fully but does work for charger stats and range), you can use CarScanner free edition and see these statistics. There's a page that has the volts and amps supported, the volts and amps requested, the volts and amps delivered, during the charging cycle. It's also interesting to see when the battery warmer fires up, because the car will appear to charge at, say, 140kw but 6kw is going into the warmer so you're really getting 134. At 140ish KW that's not a big deal, at lower temps on a 50kw charger actually running at 45kw, a 6kw loss might change your calculations.

 

[4sallypat]

With your Lightning, right?

Yes Lightning SR.
Still waiting for my MME SR to arrive.
The MME should have similar charge rates ?

 

[Pioneer74]

Yes Lightning SR.
Still waiting for my MME SR to arrive.
The MME should have similar charge rates ?

Mach-E will be slower because the pack voltage is lower.

 

[jgillmer]

I wrote about exactly this on the end of my long question about why my mache was charging "slow" last week

Other responses are correct, here's more details

The 200kw EVGo chargers are "rated" that way because they have max 200A and max 1000V. The 150kw EA chargers max 375A and max 400V. These limits are either-or! Which ever you hit limits your charging. We have a 400v battery architecture so we can use all of a 150kw EA, and not much of a 200kw EVgo.

Evgo also has 100w units, I don't know their volt limit because I haven't connected to one yet.

This means, when connected to a 200kw EVGo charger, you'll max out the 200A limit @ about 355V and get about 70kw. If you're connected to an EA charger, you'll get 140kw (not the full 150kw because of the decreased voltage while low, and then the car will throttle its charging at higher SOC to avoid battery harm).

Makes sense but--- annoying, huh????

You can determine a charger's reported maximum volts and amps through ODB2 using CarScanner. The car's interface doesn't report it, nor does the charger itself in any way. Ford needs to be bugged into doing this, because people must know if slow charging is because the charger's maximum or the cars - they could have a simple page in charging saying whether the limit is caused by the car or the charger. I think someone said the Rivian does this, but I haven't seen myself. When limited by car, there are limits caused by battery architecture (the 400V limit) or by SOC & Temperature.

There's another wrinkle, which I haven't seen yet, which is a group of chargers may also have a power limit. Some of the new dual-handle chargers both handles can work at the same time, and they somehow split the available power if they have to. There might be a site limit too.

The final wrinkle is broken chargers. I found a 350kw, curious to see what would happen, and it charged me at 35kw. EVGo support said the charger was out of service (didn't say anything on the screen, connected fine, was shown as offline in the app, support says you must 100% of time check the exact charger in their app which is.... sigh). Since I have plug & go on EVGo, the idea that I have to pull up the app is just wrong-headed. In Carscanner, I could see the charger reporting it was generating a lot of amps but the car saying it wasn't, a sure sign the charger is confused not the car.

But the limits you're seeing are not a broken charger or your mache being broken. It's the nature of those 200kw EVGO chargers. Regrettably there are a lot near me. It's going to get worse when there are some 200kw that are 400v and some that are 1000v, so you can't tell before arriving whether you'll get a faster charge or not. Sure, 70kw is more than 45kw, but it's not 140kw by a long shot! You actually need to know rated volts and amps, not the KW. Or, any two out of three, you can calculate the third.

Want to check this yourself?

If you buy a bluetooth ODB2 dongle (I use the cheaper VEEPAK which doesn't work with FORSCAN fully but does work for charger stats and range), you can use CarScanner free edition and see these statistics. There's a page that has the volts and amps supported, the volts and amps requested, the volts and amps delivered, during the charging cycle. It's also interesting to see when the battery warmer fires up, because the car will appear to charge at, say, 140kw but 6kw is going into the warmer so you're really getting 134. At 140ish KW that's not a big deal, at lower temps on a 50kw charger actually running at 45kw, a 6kw loss might change your calculations.

Thank you so much for this!

By the way - charging right now at the BWI Cell lot using the EVSmart (basically the ShellRecharge network). 150kW initial capability, but charging at about 84 kW rate. Not bad though because it is by kW charging instead of minutes and the rate, .32/kWh is fair for a DCFG

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