Advice Requested: solution to manage communal charger at a condo bldg

[Jimrpa]

Ok, let me elaborate. The first 6 floors of the building is a garage that has 220 spaces. All these spaces are deeded to / owned by condo owners. The HOA doesn’t own anything except the common elements. So if you want to buy another vehicle, you have to buy (or rent) a space. The cost is around $30,000 and that is lower than what it was pre-pandemic. All properties are down ~10-15% due to work from home, crime, etc.

We also have to pay HOA fees and property taxes on the space, around $200/ month.

You’ve GOT to be kidding! HOA fees on parking spaces?! Thank god I don’t live in a city. My garage and driveway belong to me and the HOA doesn’t charge a separate assessment on them. There would be a riot if they tried (well, actually, the apathetic slugs where I live wouldn’t notice it and just do whatever the politburo tells them to do).

Sponsored

 

[kodiakng]

You’ve GOT to be kidding! HOA fees on parking spaces?! Thank god I don’t live in a city. My garage and driveway belong to me and the HOA doesn’t charge a separate assessment on them. There would be a riot if they tried (well, actually, the apathetic slugs where I live wouldn’t notice it and just do whatever the politburo tells them to do).

think of the parking spot as real estate - every square inch costs money in a dense urban environment. the ramps, drive up lanes, and security are common costs and the garage space itself requires maintenance and management so the HOA fees cover that portion.

 

[ARK]

Ok, let me elaborate. The first 6 floors of the building is a garage that has 220 spaces. All these spaces are deeded to / owned by condo owners. The HOA doesn’t own anything except the common elements. So if you want to buy another vehicle, you have to buy (or rent) a space. The cost is around $30,000 and that is lower than what it was pre-pandemic. All properties are down ~10-15% due to work from home, crime, etc.

We also have to pay HOA fees and property taxes on the space, around $200/ month.

I’m with the others who said consider some option to install an outlet in your own space.

If you have one EV stall for 220 cars, I feel like there is a very high chance you will have someone hogging it, visitors ICEing it, and so forth.

Unless you work from home and have no issue checking at random hours throughout the day, I think you run a high risk of not getting access when you need it.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

This is true, but you need to realize that the installation you are moving forward with would be considered a commercial installation. It wouldn't be residential as the HOA is charging for usage, therefore it's a business.

I live in a multi unit apartment and we have a ChargePoint installation in our resident only underground garage. It's a standard 6.4kW unit with two plus that can run at 6.4kW simultaneously. Not ideal since there are only two spaces that are shared in a building with 115 units.

The key is to have full management control of the station and be able to change its management configuration as usage / need changes.

Ours isn't configured very well for residents at all since our property management company who set it up doesn't understand the EV lifestyle. It has a 8 hour limit per session, then the parking fee goes from $0 to $25 an hour. Charging stops after the time limit.

This simple set up does not work well at all. I have suggested a bit more complicated configuration, that would allow maximum usage, but also allow residents to get what they need. My suggestion was the following:

1. No time limit​

2. Idle fee enforced during 9a to 7p time frame.​

3. Enable waitlist feature.​

​

This allows people to charge overnight without needing to move a vehicle at 3a-4a, but pushes to have the vehicles moved by morning to allow others to use. It would create a first come first serve policy, and deter abuse. Naturally as need increases there needs to be understanding that additional spaces will need to be added. This is just how it's going to be, and those properties that understand that will be more successful in attracting EV owners.

Anyway, you want a product that is going to be future proof and long term with the investment that's being made. Limiting yourself now, is going to cost the HOA more down the road.

Alan, thanks for your comments.

We will likely experiment with a few settings first before we decide on how to configure. I heard that successful communities set up a charging committee of residents to figure out what makes sense for them vs having rules written by others who are often clueless.

The long term solution is to pre wire all floors and install EVSEs in each person’s space.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Thank you all for your suggestions and comments. As always, forum members bring a wealth of knowledge on all things EVs. I have some work to do to go through the various options and figure out what’s best. Will make sure to add any findings to the first post for everyone’s benefit.

 

[67 Stang Convertible]

Ok, let me elaborate. The first 6 floors of the building is a garage that has 220 spaces. All these spaces are deeded to / owned by condo owners. The HOA doesn’t own anything except the common elements. So if you want to buy another vehicle, you have to buy (or rent) a space. The cost is around $30,000 and that is lower than what it was pre-pandemic. All properties are down ~10-15% due to work from home, crime, etc.

We also have to pay HOA fees and property taxes on the space, around $200/ month.

Those of us in the South (southeast) just can't grasp this concept. OMG, the parking spot for your MME costs more than 1/2 of the car!!! You guys just keep shoveling snow and we will continue to enjoy our relatively "free" parking. ?
ps. if the spot costs $30K do you have to insure it? Are there additional maintenance costs?

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Those of us in the South (southeast) just can't grasp this concept. OMG, the parking spot for your MME costs more than 1/2 of the car!!! You guys just keep shoveling snow and we will continue to enjoy our relatively "free" parking. ?
ps. if the spot costs $30K do you have to insure it? Are there additional maintenance costs?

The only reason I added parking cost is to avoid suggestions to buy 10! I didn’t realize it’ll be this shocking, honestly.

The good news is that if you live in this urban of an environment, you have nothing to shovel or mow! Bldg maintenance clear a couple of sidewalk, but that’s about it.

 

[ChasingCoral]

You’ve GOT to be kidding! HOA fees on parking spaces?! Thank god I don’t live in a city. My garage and driveway belong to me and the HOA doesn’t charge a separate assessment on them. There would be a riot if they tried (well, actually, the apathetic slugs where I live wouldn’t notice it and just do whatever the politburo tells them to do).

Sure. The HOA will either include parking lot costs in everyone’s per unit fees or they can charge separately for units and parking spaces. If everyone has the same number of parking spots in the garage or equal access, the former is fine. However, if parking spots are separately deeded and unevenly distributed across unit owners, it is more equitable to charge for units and parking spots separately.

Think about it this way: If you were in a unit with one space and someone else owned 3 spaces, should you both pay the same amount for parking lot maintenance?

 

[A-A-Ron]

You’ve GOT to be kidding! HOA fees on parking spaces?! Thank god I don’t live in a city. My garage and driveway belong to me and the HOA doesn’t charge a separate assessment on them. There would be a riot if they tried (well, actually, the apathetic slugs where I live wouldn’t notice it and just do whatever the politburo tells them to do).

HOA fees on a parking garage are going toward a share of the maintenance (concrete structures require certain things), security (gates, access systems), lighting and elevators. You own your garage and driveway, but you also pay all of your own expenses.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Another idea for you is Blink. They now own SemaConnect who used to provide nice turnkey solutions to building owners. Their chargers can be set to “private”. Those private chargers don’t show up on maps and will only activate for registered members. The property manager distributes memberships. Members are given RFID cars/fobs or are given a code to activate the space in their app. Billing is direct to the user via the app with no further input from the property manager (unless the property manager chooses to periodically clean their rosters).

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Another idea for you is Blink. They now own SemaConnect who used to provide nice turnkey solutions to building owners. Their chargers can be set to “private”. Those private chargers don’t show up on maps and will only activate for registered members. The property manager distributes memberships. Members are given RFID cars/fobs or are given a code to activate the space in their app. Billing is direct to the user via the app with no further input from the property manager (unless the property manager chooses to periodically clean their rosters).

Great! I was looking at them cause they are coming out with a DCFC with 30kW of power that could work as an upgrade sometime in the future. The unit is designed for multi-unit dwellings where it is ideal to do 2-hour charging sessions.

 

[ShaggySS]

Where I work we just purchased a bunch of ChargePoint chargers for some public parking lots and after this Tesla announcement of $1K per charger, we were intrigued so we are going to pick up a few of them and test them out. Obviously doesn't help you today but Tesla's charger and pricepoint could be game changers depending upon how it holds up and its ease of use.

 

[CHeil402]

Our work installed a two plug Zevtron charger back in 2020 that's mostly been good. You manage payment/activation through a web portal and there's also a QR code on each plug that will directly link to the site if desired.

https://zevtron.com/

 

[sci_goat]

I've just started looking at SWTCH for a different application, but they do offer multi-family applications which incorporate load management to assure total capacity isn't exceeded. I think this solution …

I’m in the same situation as OP: 40 unit condo (apartment style), built to 60s electrical norms. We have two community shared parking spots we could install in, but the payment management was the issue (our Association Management company is terrible and would probably botch this up).

i got a quotefor $7k, to run conduit and install a charger off of our home panel. I know you are worried about load. If you ever revisit the topic, look into load balancing or dynamic load balancing, as dmastro suggested.
Wallbox has one called Power Meter. https://wallbox.com/en_us/energy-management/solutions

this reddit thread may provide more background from users:
https://reddit.com/r/evcharging/s/JQoHuAmoBJ

 

[methorian]

I would greatly appreciate advice from anyone who uses a multi-user level 2 EVSE at home or work that is not managed by ChargePoint. What service provider do you use and how has the experience been for you, and for the equipment owner?

After a 2-year fight with the HOA, we finally got the board to unanimously approve installing a communal EVSE at our condo building. The set up will be a single parking spot dedicated to EV charging and a shared 48-amp EVSE. The HOA is footing the bill for the parking spot (~$30,000) and installation cost (~$7,500). However, they want to charge residents for incremental / ongoing costs (electricity, association fees, taxes, and some markup). The charger under consideration is either a Universal Tesla or a Wallbox Pulsar Plus that can deliver 11.5 kW, but we are flexible to consider other units.

There are two service providers that can help manage billing for us: Tesla for Business (which is great for Tesla vehicles, but would make everyone go through additional steps to initiate charging) and Wallbox (which has expensive recurring fees).

We would like to identify any other software solutions that provide residents with: 1) an app, 2) the ability to pay with a CC, and 3) settles with the HOA on a regular basis. Any thoughts?

I work for an electrical supply distributor and we offer these two options for non-Chargepoint commercial networked (with RoI) EVSE's, both offer up to 48A charging.

Both utilize the "ampUP" service network. So maybe look into them? Their service seems reasonably priced from my research as well, I think around $250/year/port to do billing/driver cards/RFID/reporting/etc.

Legrand:
https://www.legrand.us/solutions/electric-vehicle-charging/commercial

LEDVANCE:
https://phaseev.ledvance.com/

ampUP service:
https://ampup.io/

EDIT:
Also wanted to mention that I have received confirmation from Legrand that they plan to offer NACS connectors in the future, in case that matters to you.

Also - I was under the impression Tesla only did commercial billing if you had at least 6 Tesla destination chargers installed?

Sponsored