US Plans Push To Upgrade Fast Chargers

BigMach-E

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And I'm glad they haven't!!! Let's also get rid of gas subsidies (which will make everything we buy go up in price) but I'm all for it!



I've been saying this myself! Look at Placerville, CA. There's a Tesla supercharger which has a magic dock and there's an EA station there. Tesla charges $0.57 kW and EA charges $0.48 kW. Tesla made a little over 4B in revenue from charging last year. Why is it that Tesla owners would prefer to pay more to use a Tesla Supercharger over the EA station which is right next to it and $0.09 less? Once we have NACS adapters I'm going to probably use nothing but superchargers. EA needs to raise their prices and start putting money into fixing their crap.
Todd, they need to fix their crap, and not be a crap company. Raising their rates will hardly get them anywhere closer to becoming reliable.

I think it’s because the company was born out of almost being forced to exist (dieselgate) that they will never have the appropriate culture to thrive. My two cents.
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Blue highway

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Not sure that it is widely used. I submitted a number of stations to an DOE database going back a decade or more. I presume that database is accessible on the DOE / EIA website but I have never looked. These were chargers we installed at my office for employee use.
:) There is no "widely used" government database. Pundits say things like this, and to me it calls into question their agenda or at least their grasp of the situation.
 

DevSecOps

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Todd, they need to fix their crap, and not be a crap company. Raising their rates will hardly get them anywhere closer to becoming reliable.

I think it’s because the company was born out of almost being forced to exist (dieselgate) that they will never have the appropriate culture to thrive. My two cents.
Well, first of all, neither of us know the exact reason why they are crappy at maintaining their infrastructure. It could be that they hardly make enough money to stay afloat or it could be because of management. My guess, and it's just a guess, is that it's probably because they don't have the finances based on last years estimated earnings.

As for the second part 100% agree with your statement. I said in my first post on this topic that you can't force a private company to be created by government action. They will only do what is necessary to comply and satisfy. But the problem exists with EVGo and all other non-Tesla brands. This makes me feel like there's something else going on, because they weren't forced into existence. None of these companies are making even 1/100th of what Tesla makes. Tesla charges more, makes more and is more reliable. I'm just connecting the dots that I can see.

Blue's post up two above is exactly what I'm saying ... these guys are going belly up or close to it. The first thing they are gonna cut is the maintenance. The government giving them money for more infrastructure with identical use = more overhead which will lead them to their demise.
 

hartmms

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None of these companies are making even 1/100th of what Tesla makes. Tesla charges more, makes more and is more reliable. I'm just connecting the dots that I can see.
Maybe search is giving me the wrong data, but it says Tesla charges $0.20 to $0.50 per kWh. That's on par with $0.48 for EA. Maybe operating and capital costs are so much lower for Tesla and that's how they make profit from their charge network.
 


DevSecOps

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Maybe search is giving me the wrong data, but it says Tesla charges $0.20 to $0.50 per kWh. That's on par with $0.48 for EA. Maybe operating and capital costs are so much lower for Tesla and that's how they make profit from their charge network.
In a previous post I gave an example. I'll attach screen shots to prove what I previously said. This is for a Tesla charge station, next to a EA station. Since the Tesla station has a magic dock it can be used by the MachE. Therefore, both stations can be used by a Tesla or a MachE. Additionally, Tesla charges an idle fee whereas EA doesn't.

Ford Mustang Mach-E US Plans Push To Upgrade Fast Chargers Screenshot_20230914-165648

Ford Mustang Mach-E US Plans Push To Upgrade Fast Chargers Screenshot_20230914-165704
 

ADDZ71

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:) There is no "widely used" government database. Pundits say things like this, and to me it calls into question their agenda or at least their grasp of the situation.
I am not sure what you are trying to say. I will repeat that the DOE called me annually from 2010-2014 to ask about the chargers (Level 2) we installed at our office (total of 8). They put this into a database. Where and how to access the database I have never really cared to find out since there are better tools available including Plugshare and ABRP. Not a pundit only commenting that there is a database and it probably is nowhere as user friendly as the apps. I believe it is actually an excel spreadsheet if I remember correctly.
 

AKgrampy

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What Alaska did, and unfortunately there was a lot of wasted spending, was to create a permanent fund. A portion of the oil pumped out of the ground is royalty oil and of course there are taxes. A portion of that funds the state, a portion goes into the permanent fund (now at around $80 billion) and a portion is returned to the residents annually. The one year you quoted was an anomaly as our legislature had been holding back payments for a few tight years when oil prices dropped. Plus the governor included an inflation incentive which had nothing to do with the fund but was paid out with it. Normal annual payment is around $1,000. Personally I wish the State would keep it all and build up the fund so that when the oil runs out the fund will be large enough to fully fund the government and we will not have to start paying state taxes. So that was a lot for one year but I would rather have a source of natural gas so my heating bill was not $800 a month during the winter!
 

Trick.Mach-E

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Are other non-Tesla charging companies any better? What is your experience with EVGo, Charge Point, the plethora of state sponsored companies, utility company chargers, convenience store chargers, etc.?
We look for EVGo more and more now as we find their DCFC are more reliable. EVGo costs more than EA but at least we know we can plug in and get a fast charge without issue.
 
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Trick.Mach-E

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Why is it that Tesla owners would prefer to pay more to use a Tesla Supercharger over the EA station which is right next to it and $0.09 less?
Tesla owners would rather die than deal with the finger pointing and children asking "what's wrong with them?" they would get from the strangers at the Tesla Superchargers...
 

Glen Boise

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Back when our states were preparing NEVI plans, how many of us complained about the lack of amenities at DCFC sites? I did and suggested the state encourage co-locating DCFC at existing convenience stores selling gasoline.
The question has always been could convenience stores add DCFC to their offerings? Independents probably could as we hear some convenience store chains have done out East. Could others contracted to a oil franchise? It would add to their customer base and "future proof" them to mostly BEV customer base.
 

DevSecOps

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Back when our states were preparing NEVI plans, how many of us complained about the lack of amenities at DCFC sites? I did and suggested the state encourage co-locating DCFC at existing convenience stores selling gasoline.
The question has always been could convenience stores add DCFC to their offerings? Independents probably could as we hear some convenience store chains have done out East. Could others contracted to a oil franchise? It would add to their customer base and "future proof" them to mostly BEV customer base.
Germany should be passing legislature any day now making it mandatory for all gas stations to have DCFC. While I am 100000000x opposed to our government mandating that private sector do anything like this, the idea is out there and already happening. There are some places in the USA that have done this already on their own as well. I've only seen one personally, about 90 min from me is run by TA Travel Center (Shell).
 

Guss-E 2021

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I said all along that paying companies to install more chargers was just going to make the situation worse. When private sector receives government money (or is forced to create a charge network) they do whatever is necessary to meet the requirements of the regulators or legislature, they don't do what's in the best interest of the people who the money was intended to serve.

As EA, for example, brings on more units online they will increase their overhead. To make matters worse, as soon as NACS and Superchargers are available, my bet is that more people will choose the supercharger network over EA. This will decrease their revenues. Couple that with more infrastructure and higher overhead, the likelihood that EA and other non-Tesla brands become worse is a very high possibility.

So what does our government do... well of course they just throw more money at the problem. 90% of taxpayers don't even own an EV, but yet they have to pay for this crap. It's just wrong.
Precisely. Automakers are going to continue make and sell more and more BEVs. This is pretty much a foregone conclusion. People will need to charge these vehicles. Tesla knows how to build and install reliable DCFC stations quickly, efficiently and affordably. With universal NACS access people will invariably choose Tesla chargers first. Other charging companies have two choices: get much better at what they do or quit and let Tesla have a monopoly.

This is the long way of saying the free market can work this out. No subsidies needed. I do think small businesses should still have access to a tax credit if they choose to install charging though.
 

Guss-E 2021

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I have always disliked government waste and mismanagement.
Ding! Ding! Ding! This is at the root of most dislike of taxes and government funded programs. We simply don't trust the money will be used properly, efficiently and effectively. Mostly because history shows it rarely is. That's because politicians, not economists and industry experts, are in charge of the money. But this is the system we have so there ya go. Here's hoping it all gets sorted proper.
 

Billyk24

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And I'm glad they haven't!!! Let's also get rid of gas subsidies (which will make everything we buy go up in price) but I'm all for it!



I've been saying this myself! Look at Placerville, CA. There's a Tesla supercharger which has a magic dock and there's an EA station there. Tesla charges $0.57 kW and EA charges $0.48 kW. Tesla made a little over 4B in revenue from charging last year. Why is it that Tesla owners would prefer to pay more to use a Tesla Supercharger over the EA station which is right next to it and $0.09 less? Once we
Germany should be passing legislature any day now making it mandatory for all gas stations to have DCFC. While I am 100000000x opposed to our government mandating that private sector do anything like this, the idea is out there and already happening. There are some places in the USA that have done this already on their own as well. I've only seen one personally, about 90 min from me is run by TA Travel Center (Shell).
have NACS adapters I'm going to probably use nothing but superchargers. EA needs to raise their prices and start putting money into fixing their crap.
What Alaska did, and unfortunately there was a lot of wasted spending, was to create a permanent fund. A portion of the oil pumped out of the ground is royalty oil and of course there are taxes. A portion of that funds the state, a portion goes into the permanent fund (now at around $80 billion) and a portion is returned to the residents annually. The one year you quoted was an anomaly as our legislature had been holding back payments for a few tight years when oil prices dropped. Plus the governor included an inflation incentive which had nothing to do with the fund but was paid out with it. Normal annual payment is around $1,000. Personally I wish the State would keep it all and build up the fund so that when the oil runs out the fund will be large enough to fully fund the government and we will not have to start paying state taxes. So that was a lot for one year but I would rather have a source of natural gas so my heating bill was not $800 a month during the winter!
Pilot travel station on the Ohio Michigan has installed two dcfc stations. Indiana and Ohio Turnpike rest areas have dcfc. Pennsylvania has granted millions to service stations along I 80 for dcfc. Makes sense opposed to a corner of a Walmart parking lot .
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