Seriously considering the Tesla Y now, talk me down

[Blinkin]

With all of the YouTube videos, since the Model Y was released, that showed all of its build quality issues, I don't understand why anyone would buy the MY now. Wait a year and maybe they will fix their quality and paint problems.

Additionally, you can wait that year and see what the competition looks like. In one year the MME, and ID4 will have been available long enough to really compare them. It made sense to buy Tesla without shopping around when they had no real EV competition. Nowadays, you might as well wait and take your pick.

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[jhalkias]

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...mach-e-is-better-than-the-tesla-model-y.1326/

 

[Astro]

Talk to me about range. I need AWD and will get the MME premium with extended battery. I also live in a cold climate (Idaho). My commute is 100 miles per day, which is why I am going electric, but that doesn't worry me. I often do weekend trips to Utah (250-500 miles each way depending on who I am visiting) and to the national parks (200-300 miles per day).

I'm having similar competing thoughts, as far as range goes we don't know the real world driving range of the MME yet. EPA ranges are unreliable real world indicators as we've already seen from current EV's.

As far as highway range goes it's doubtful the MME will be able to come close to Tesla model Y. The main reason is the drag coefficient, tesla MY has a 0.23 drag coefficient where as the MME's has not been made public except to say it will be less than 0.3. Because MME styling uses a higher, longer hood, I think it's doubtful it will come close to the MY drag coefficient. This is especially important for highway real world range at higher speeds. But we will find out soon when the embargo is lifted.

The second big factor that puts the MME at a disadvantage is winter conditions power consumption. One of the biggest drains on your electric battery in the winter is the use of the heater. The model Y uses heat pumps to help reduce this drain, the MME doesn't.

On the other hand I think the MME looks much better and I especially like the display cluster in front of you, as opposed to the Teslas single center touch screen. I also think the MME, because it's ford, will have a more robust fit and finish.

So you have to decide which is most important to you, fit and finish and looks(+MME) or optimized efficiency and range(+MY). For me these are the two key factors.

For most people charging stations probably won't matter much, we'll mostly all charge exclusively overnight in our garage and have no need for them. This is what longer ranges allow us to do, not have to go to charging stations. But for some of us like you and me that have longer highway commutes and winter conditions the choice becomes harder.

 

[engnrng]

Not interested in bashing the MY, or convincing anyone of what to buy but understand that it will not take until 2022 to get the tax credit. You can adjust your withholding such that your can realize the credit during calendar year 2021.

Good suggestion malba2366! $7500/50 weeks = $150, for example. If you have income with a regular paycheck and a cooperative payroll person, you can figure out how many exemptions to take to decrease your Fed withholding that amount, and help make your payments during the first year of ownership.

 

[dbsb3233]

As far as highway range goes it's doubtful the MME will be able to come close to Tesla model Y. The main reason is the drag coefficient, tesla MY has a 0.23 drag coefficient where as the MME's has not been made public except to say it will be less than 0.3. Because MME styling uses a higher, longer hood, I think it's doubtful it will come close to the MY drag coefficient. This is especially important for highway real world range at higher speeds. But we will find out soon when the embargo is lifted.

This is true. Higher drag (for the better styling). Should definitely be a lower miles/kWh. But remember to factor in the bigger (ER) battery too, which narrows that range gap quite a bit.

 

[FredT]

With all of the YouTube videos, since the Model Y was released, that showed all of its build quality issues, I don't understand why anyone would buy the MY now. Wait a year and maybe they will fix their quality and paint problems.

Model 3 experience would suggest otherwise. I recently watched a video review of the newly revised Model 3 in England. The car, a review car from Tesla, had the same panel gap problems that the Model Y is suffering from.

 

[highland58]

I've also been contemplating the lack of a tow package for the MME and the fact that the manual apparently comes right out and says "don't even add one" - that's disappointing. One of my needs in an SUV would be the ability to tow a trailer hitch for added cargo space for needs ranging from needing to move for my job to needing to take things to the dump in addition to wanting to hook up a bike or ski rack.

So essentially the OP should be carefully reviewing their functional/utility needs in a crossover and then making sure the MME meets them. Not everyone will necessarily need their MME for towing after all.

I have a 16 year old F250 for the functions that you list - towing, taking things to the dump, trips to Home depot. I would not even consider an MME for those tasks, albeit with a trailer. You should be able to use a trailer hitch for a bike rack or attach a roof rack for skis on an MME, I'm confident that options for that will be available.

 

[BadgerGreg]

Not interested in bashing the MY, or convincing anyone of what to buy but understand that it will not take until 2022 to get the tax credit. You can adjust your withholding such that your can realize the credit during calendar year 2021.

Good point! Also, an economic benefit is an economic benefit, even if the payment is deferred. Even IF you don't realize the full $7,500 tax benefit until early 2022, you must consider that as a direct benefit of the MME purchase.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

Ultimately I think that if you're in a situation where you're seriously considering a Model Y in late 2020, knowing about the ongoing quality issues and the sketchiness of Tesla as a company, meaning you're going in fully educated and aware, then you should probably go for it. It does have a longer official range, and a solid charging network.

I'm well aware some will faint on seeing me say something positive here but I've been pretty consistent in stating my pro/con beliefs here. It pretty much always comes down to vehicle build quality.

There's a whole long active thread elsewhere on here that is the "why the Mach-E is better" and I don't think it makes sense to repeat all of that.

As others have said, it comes down to your needs and priorities. I'm not sure it makes sense to try to "talk you down" if you are already educated on what's going on and still considering one, because you've already discounted the negatives, or you wouldn't be asking the question.

 

[RyZt]

There are 3 entrances into Yosemite Valley from SF or LA.

Two Electrify America locations are under construction outside Yosemite: northwest entrance, south entrance. Tesla Supercharger currently available at those two plus west entrance.

 

[DBC]

As far as highway range goes it's doubtful the MME will be able to come close to Tesla model Y. The main reason is the drag coefficient, tesla MY has a 0.23 drag coefficient where as the MME's has not been made public except to say it will be less than 0.3.

Aero is also important at lower speeds. The losses are of course lower than at high speeds, but aero losses are still dead weight losses that can't be recovered through regen.

The MY may have a better Cd than the MME but not likely by a huge amount. Or maybe not at all. Because there are no standards about testing Cd, the answer to the question of "what is the Cd of this vehicle?" is more or less "what Cd do you want?" Tweak this or that parameter and the number changes dramatically. That means that claims regarding "too good to be true" Cd numbers are mostly likely that -- too good to be true.

That differences in Cd would be small follows from the fact that Ford as well as every other manufacturer is very well versed in aerodynamics. Given all the time engineers have spent in wind tunnels, and all the reverse engineering that is done, it's hard to imagine that two vehicles of roughly the same dimensions will have significantly different Cds.

One advantage the MY does have is the ability to tweak the motors. The resulting increase in efficiency is more likely to show up at some speeds than others, and probably not at high speeds.

Looking forward to some real world tests. My guess is that the ranges of the MME and the MY will be considerably closer than what the EPA numbers suggest. Will have to see.

 

[trutolife27]

some more info for you.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

some more info for you.

so, just to be clear, you're saying they might have a quality issue? ?

?

 

[Nak]

Thank God Ford is so much better than Tesla. 5 Car Brands with the Most Recalls—and 6 with the Fewest

Yep, no problems here at Ford. Ford's profits fall nearly 99% for year, due to Explorer woes

It's so good to know that nobody has warranty issues with their Fords. Ford EcoBoost Engine Leak So Bad There’s A Class-Action Lawsuit Ford Dual Clutch Transmission Class Action Lawsuit

Give me a break. Is there an issue with some Ys coming off the line with defects? Yes. Too many? Yes. So if you buy one, inspect it closely, like you should do with any car purchase. Will there be issues with some Mach-Es? Yes. But hey, lets be so insecure about the Mach-e that we have to cry about the Y "It's bad!". Guess what, it's not. It's a great car, and that's why Ford is trying to emulate Tesla. I hope the Mach-e GT Performance is better than the Y; I'll buy one if it is. Even with all of the problems Ford has had, I still figure it's a good car. It's funny as shit how people get so upset that other people are happy with their choice in cars. Tesla has the highest EVER customer satisfaction rate; let's hope that the Mach-e turns things around for Ford.

There is no perfect car. Every car will have issues. A few anecdotal videos are meaningless. Add to the fact that many internet videos are complete and utter bullshit. Really, I thought every knew that by now. "It's on the internet so it must be true." Right. All of that said I think it's very important to look very closely at a Y before purchasing it. Tesla is letting too many problems through. Kind of just like Ford.

Both the Y and the E have pros and cons:

The E will almost certainly have better paint. Compare environmental restrictions for paint in Mexico and California and you'll quickly see why that will be the case. The E has more, and better, color choices over the Y. That said, the vast majority of Y's have fine paint for a factory paint job. I'll be comparing the paint on my Y to a Mach-e one of these days. The E may have better paint, but it will have to be a pretty damn good factory paint job.

Some will prefer the looks of one over the other. There are some that consider the Y ugly, there also many who consider the E ugly. And there are many fans of each as well. The E has a more traditional muscle car look which is less efficient than the Y's aerodynamic look. The E has a more "car like" look than the Y with a rear end that tapers down much faster. The Y looks more like an SUV because the roof does not slope down like the E.

The E has a more of a blend of traditional and digital interiors. The Y has a more minimalistic and digital interior. Many will prefer one over the other. Neither interior is inherently "better" than the other, except that the simpler Tesla interior has fewer parts prone to failure. (Switches and buttons.)

Both cars will be fast and fun to drive. The Y will be faster in a race though. Yep, both are rated 0-60 @ 4.8 seconds. The Ford uses a one foot roll out to get that number, the Tesla does not. 2020 Tesla Model Y Dual Motor Long Range Tested: This Is the "Slow" One The Tesla will do better on windy roads and on the track due to it's 255 wide tires compared to the Ford's 225s. We don't know how the brakes compare between the two because Ford refuses to release the E's actual brake size. Ford continues to release specs for it's brakes that are physically impossible to implement given the wheel size, whether intentionally or because of marketing stupidity we don't know.

The Y will have greater day to day range than the E. The AWD Y is rated at 326 miles, the AWD E 270 miles. To compare real world trip range between the two will require side by side testing. Nothing else is trustworthy. We've recently had one member here post trip data on the Y which is clearly designed to be biased against the Y, whether that bias is intentional or subconscious I don't know. I've offered to do a side by side test with forum members contributing to test conditions, no one has stepped up to commit to such a test. It seems likely that at higher speeds the E will fare even worse against the Y due to the aerodynamics of the two cars. Muscle car looks are great, but everything in life has a trade off. The Y will suffer less range degradation than the E anytime the weather is cold enough to require cabin heat due to the heat pump. This will hold true even at temperatures below heat pump usefulness, because the HVAC system in the Y can scavenge waste heat from the motors and battery for cabin heating. The E can not.

The Y will be better in the snow due to better ground clearance, 5.5" compared to 6.75". Also, "Off Road" mode in the Y is an absolute gem in the snow, I know this from experience. I've driven right by stuck Subarus up on Mt. Hood. Without "Off Road" mode I would likely have been digging out along with the Subarus. I don't know if the E has any similar mode.

If you have large dogs and want them to ride behind the rear seat, the Y is the clear choice. The roof slope that makes the E more car like also limits size in the rear cargo compartment.

If you need or want to tow, the Y is the clear choice. The Y tows 3500 pounds, the E tows zero. The Y has an available roof rack and hitch mounted rack, as far as I am aware the E does not.

The Y has more cargo space and that cargo space is more functional as well, with a large "trunk" area under the floor. The E on the other hand has a cargo cover that is not available on the Y. Given the 600 pounds extra weight of the E and the fact that the E has lower load rated tires than the Y, it's obvious that the Y will have much greater load carrying capacity. Consider though that we haven't seen a production E in a consumers hands. Perhaps production cars will be equipped with tires that have higher load ratings.

The E appears to have better functionality with it's mobile app. It allows you to schedule charging from the app, the Y does not. This may change of course.

The E's "hands off" driving is far more limited than the Y's "Autopilot", with the E's being functional only on a limited selection of roads. The Y's autopilot functionality is included in the purchase price, the E's is not. The E promises to be "hands free", the Y will almost certainly be "hands free" before the E gets this functionality. The E has nothing to compare to Tesla's "FSD", on the other hand "FSD" is expensive and a gamble at this time. It may allow totally autonomous driving at some point, it may not.

Ford has a much larger service network than Tesla. Tesla has a better warranty and mobile service that will come to your door. That said, certain heavy maintenance issues may need to be addressed at a Service Center. Even though Tesla will pay to have the car towed, this would still be a PITA. Ford's dealer/service network is both a blessing and a curse. A close by Ford dealer will be more convenient for sure. Conversely, dealers make most of their money from service. The fact that Ford dealers are supporting the Mach-e says they feel there will be money to be made servicing it.

Tesla has a much better charging network than what the E will have access to. The third party chargers that The E will use are notorious for having issues regarding payment and charging. Tesla superchargers are more widespread and far more convenient to use. That said, given three to five years I'd guess that will become a moot point.

TLDR: The Mach-e Has more traditional muscle car looks and a superior service network. The Y has a more aerodynamic shape, greater range, is faster and has greater utility than the E.

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