Ford hits the brakes on $12 billion in EV spending in KY

[AKgrampy]

Would take more than doughnuts to convince everyone to wake up two hours earlier for what would have been 4 hour drive in an ICE. ?

And even if we gave ourselves the extra 2 hours, I dunno if chargers would be available and working (or exist) where we would need them on alligator alley. So it’d be 2 charging stops on the way there and 2 more on the way back and no destination charger at our hotel.

Or I borrow my wife’s SUV and spend 10 minutes filling up once.

Just piling on but I drive my Mach around town almost exclusively. Charge only at home. Also take it out of town for berry picking in the hills. When I take a road trip to Anchorage; though, I can do the entire 350miles non-stop summer or winter in my Expedition in just over 5 hours. Why add 2 or three additional hours to the trip? To be fair I sometimes haul a couple bikes and that leaves out the Mach (I know I could add a hitch but not worth it at this time.)

All this being said many Americans are two vehicles homes and there should be a market for a affordable around town EV.

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[21st Century Pony]

Or they can take out cost by decontenting products. For example, 2-way power seats. Fixed headrests. No auto up/down power window switches. No dual-height load floor. No LED accent lamps. No SiriusXM receiver. Lower performance motors. Smaller battery packs. I’ll bet you I could take $10K of cost out of the MME without breaking a sweat. Just by judicious decontenting. Sure, each thing I listed sounds like it’s only pennies, but those pennies add up to serious dollars!

This had happened before on the Fusions as an example.

 

[Maquis]

You underestimate the avg person. Remember that a significant percentage of the population Can’t balance a check book.

I’m not sure how that applies to my comment regarding “people I know”?

 

[RickMachE]

I joined the forum back in September to get and understanding of MME ownership. I test drove a MME SR RWD at the beginning of September. I'm a Ford enthusiast with 9 Fords under my belt since 1978 (including 4 Pintos...). I just bought a Gen 6 Bronco in 2022 after waiting nearly two years and through all the production drama being a Bronco Reservationist brought. I was looking at the MME to replace one of my cars (in a fleet of 5) that is 17 years old and 400,000+ miles on the clock (not a Ford).

I love the MME design and find the build quality quite impressive for the price point. The driving dynamics are excellent as well. But, after learning of the MME being inflicted with the HVBJB failure and having poor LVB charging management, I see these as questionable engineering design issues, and to me they make the rest of the design suspect. The recent revelation that the door popper can get out of sync with the locking system just extends that concern. The MME is an engineering over-reach in several of areas and a poor engineering execution in areas that are key to operability.

But the key deal breaker is charging. Yup, I can easily charge at home and install my own L2 ESVE; I already have a 240V 50-amp circuit in my garage for my welder. However, based on the numerous stories regarding public charging on road trips I've read here on the forum, I just can't make the swap to EV. Why spend nearly $50K for a vehicle that only gets you 175 miles from home (on a perfect 70-degree day). I knew public charging wasn't ideal, but people arguing over use of a 150 KW charger vs. a 350 KW? Needing 4 different apps to find a working charger? Meticulously planning fuel stops as if you are a general aviation pilot? Adding 3 + hours daily to a long-distance road trip? Assume a near 50% mileage drop in winter just to a have safe range buffer? Whew!

Yet every product design has flaws, and systems have operability issues; it is the owner's decision to accept them. But asking to accept such flaws on vehicle with limited range and lengthy recharge times and no cost savings is a bit much to ask. IMO.

You're making a mistake. Not in holding off on a Mach-E, but in reading issues on a forum like this and concluding they are widespread. Social media rants all day about issues, but rarely talks about successes, or lack of issues.

"door popper can get out of sync with the locking system"? I'll bet there aren't 20 people with that issue. In total, out of all the Mach-Es sold.

I just took a 4,700 miles EV trip over 2 weeks. I didn't see a single person arguing over which charger to use. In a normal day trip, you add 1.5 hours to the trip, not 3+. 50% drop in winter? No.

But you are correct - this isn't for you, because you seem to think that rare issues, or extreme experiences, are the norm.

 

[Jimrpa]

This had happened before on the Fusions as an example.

LOL! Ford has been pulling the decontenting game since the Model T

 

[azerik]

They have to be able to do multiple things at the same time. One is an understood (although costly) warranty repair on a portion of the existing fleet. Another is the manufacture of new products, and the third is the design and development of future new products. Separate issues, dealt with by separate groups with only small areas of overlap.

I was only being sarcastic lol

 

[dbsb3233]

The whole EV push has been too much too fast, IMO. These aren't cell phones, or cameras (two examples people sometimes compare to). These are automobiles with 15 year avg lifespans, that cost 50k+, that require massive new infrastructure. They can be great for certain buyers in the right situations, but that's a LONG way from being most of the public. This will take much longer than some think/hope.

It's probably good that Ford is slowing down a bit. The Tesla fans pretend like it's a race and the first one across the line will kill all the rest. Nope. There's plenty of room for many manufacturers.

 

[johnmark]

1. I'm happy with my Mach e but...
2. There's no way it would be my only car...
3. I won't take my family on a road trip in it because I don't want to endure all the drama about finding chargers that work, waiting my turn, and then waiting to finish charging.

So I get the reluctance... but as a second car? Pretty fun little driving machine.

 

[Scooby24]

I think the demand is still there for the most part. Just not at the current pricing requirements.

People who would be considering EVs are often in tech, finance, health, or other high income positions in industries that have presently been hit the hardest so we're scaling back purchases.

I believe this is when the manufacturers need to take a step back and pause. Innovate and build up internal engineering, production, and supply chains that reduce costs and lower the prices of EVs so when the economy starts picking back up for these sectors, the EV proposition looks enticing.

Extra tough spot given the strikes. I can only imagine that's going to pull back Ford's willingness to make risky financial moves for some time.

 

[agoldman]

geeze all this doom and gloom.. .. I'm quite enjoying my mach e. (disclaimer, we do also have a plugin hybrid for long trips .. for now)

 

[dbsb3233]

geeze all this doom and gloom.. .. I'm quite enjoying my mach e. (disclaimer, we do also have a plugin hybrid for long trips .. for now)

Same here. Including 35,000 miles of road trips alone.

But this story is more about the economics for Ford and other legacy automakers. EVs are great for many buyers who are in the right situation for them, but the economics of making them is still crap if your name isn't Tesla.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Tesla has open the door and shown what an advantage direct sales and vertical integration is to BEVs. I don’t think traditional oems can catch up due to all the legacy constraints.

legacy oems will have to completely separate their ev division. Essentially starting a new company to compete.

the competition in the ev space will come from nio, rivian, and other startups.

 

[ChehRob]

There was a bit of 'pile on' these last couple years, probably a good idea to modestly slow down. But I still suspect that EVs will hit 50% in the US far quicker than many imagine. By 2030 , 2035 by the latest, ICEs will become a niche product.

 

[dbsb3233]

There was a bit of 'pile on' these last couple years, probably a good idea to modestly slow down. But I still suspect that EVs will hit 50% in the US far quicker than many imagine. By 2030 , 2035 by the latest, ICEs will become a niche product.

50% US market share (new sales) by 2030 is quite a bit slower than many are expecting, especially some governments that have been pushing ICE bans. But I'd say that's a fairly realistic target for BEVs. I still think PHEVs and other hybrids are likely to see a boost this decade in order to meet certain restrictive government policies.

But the wildcard is always battery tech. If we see a quantum leap in battery tech (like a doubling of energy density, or half the price, etc) that actually becomes a mass production reality by like 2027, that changes the whole equation. If/when that happens, we're off to the races. But current batteries are still so expensive and so heavy for 300 mile range that it makes BEVs a lot more expensive than ICE or hybrid (purchase price alone), and money-losers for legacy manufacturers. That situation leaves us where we are now: legacy makers slowing down their EV path, and US EV adoption growth rates staying modest. There's a lot of production cost cutting needed to improve the economics (and that just got even tougher with much higher labor costs for the next 4.5 years).

 

[0CO2]

This is the critical inflection point where Chinese manufacturers flood the world market with compelling EVs at low pricepoints, making it impossible for legacy US manufacturers to compete when they finally decide to scramble to regain lost market share. This is how Japan nearly destroyed the US big 3 in the '70s-'80s. History repeats itself. So fiddling back on EVs by Ford and GM is good for short term returns, but disastrous for long term prospects. Unfortunately our system is geared to tactical gains over strategic ones.

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