Electrify America stations are regularly full now - is EA finally making money?

[DevSecOps]

I haven't seen what the lines were at the Tesla superchargers over the weekend. Were there the same lines shown here? I know Tesla added a congestion fee before the holiday weekend so once drivers hit 90% they were highly encouraged to move on. I know from experience to go from 10% to 90% in a Tesla will take about 40 minutes, and less than that if it is at a V3 station.

The two sites that Tesla had PR issues with ~5 years ago are Kettleman City and Quartzite. I assume both are popular stops because a vehicle with 300 miles of Range can get from LA to San Jose, San Francisco or Sacramento and Palm Springs to Phoenix with one stop at either of those locations. Telsa jumped on it after those pictures of mile long lines went viral. They installed an additional 56 chargers in Kettleman and an additional 84 in Quartzite.

Tesla, even though so many people hate them, actually had mobile service deployed to both of the aforementioned locations on standby over the entire Thanksgiving weekend to ensure that all chargers and cars were operational.

And PSA - Don't try to charge a non Tesla at a Tesla Supercharger without magicdock, it won't work.

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[dbsb3233]

I hear you, but each person has different circumstances and tolerance for inconvenience. You would be shocked how many city dwellers have this issue. On an average day, you see a combination of very expensive EVs (BMW iM, Lucid, Taycans, etc.) next to the cheapest econoboxes like the Bolt and Nero. All parked at the neighborhood Target EA waiting to charge. The richest person in Illinois used to live in a condo two blocks away from me and if he (his driver, really) drove an EV, he'd be charging at the same EA along side all of us common folks.

When I bought the Mach-E, I had access to free charging at work. Since then, I moved jobs and lost the ability to charge. I among many others have been lobbying the morons on our HOA to install a charging station. I found a way to reduce the cost to $5,200 for a 48 amp charger. They seem to keep finding ways to block it. But the fight goes on.

Oh I don't doubt it. People buying EVs because the government tells them to, or because they get huge tax credits, or because they want to be green, or to look cool, or whatever... without fully realizing what they're getting into without cheap, convenient home charging.

A year of that and I bet there's a lot of buyer's remorse. Wrong tool for the job, as they say.

 

[RickMachE]

In a recent interview, JR Scaringe (Rivian's CEO) said that a DCFC breaks even on four charging events per day. EA should be very profitable right now. If they are not, it's due to their incompetence.

I would love to see his accounting for that calculation.

 

[Fremont Kid]

I'm generally with you on calling things what they actually are... but as you point out, so often this never happens.

Just this morning the news had "footage" of an event.... uh-huh... actually all video was stored digitally with no physical media... but still "footage".

but in this case I find "hose" better than cable, or dispenser or something similar.

We all need to start calling them "Electric Fuel Stations"

This is another great example. Only issue is that the 'fuel' is electricity, i.e. electrons, which then becomes redundant.
Still, the evolution is interesting.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

I would love to see his accounting for that calculation.

He hasn't shared his spreadsheet with me yet, Rick. Will let you know if he ever does . I'm sure at one point either Rivian or Tesla will share more with their shareholders about the economics of charging.

 

[dbsb3233]

I would love to see his accounting for that calculation.

Yep. Perhaps they've found a way to build and install much cheaper like Tesla did? I really haven't paid much attention to their chargers since we can't use them.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Oh I don't doubt it. People buying EVs because the government tells them to, or because they get huge tax credits, or because they want to be green, or to look cool, or whatever... without fully realizing what they're getting into without cheap, convenient home charging.

A year of that and I bet there's a lot of buyer's remorse. Wrong tool for the job, as they say.

Not really. I don't care about vehicle operating cost. I drive 350 miles per month. Charging at EA at the $0.36/ kWh + $7/ month membership, my energy cost is $48 a month. Doesn't get its own line item on my budget sheet.

 

[dbsb3233]

Not really. I don't care about vehicle operating cost. I drive 350 miles per month. Charging at EA at the $0.36/ kWh + $7/ month membership, my energy cost is $48 a month. Doesn't get its own line item on my budget sheet.

Convenience was the main point, but cost is a factor for most buyers too (EVs generally cost 5-dgits more to buy than comparable ICE and the savings from cheap residential rates are a big part of offsetting that).

But sure, there's always a segment of the market that has plenty of money and doesn't mind paying more. That's why there's cars that cost $100k+. Someone buying a Lucid, for instance, isn't as likely to care about costs. But it's a little different for mainstream buyers that are more cost conscious.

 

[VindictivePantz]

Apologies if it's been mentioned in the thread, but even in a future with more EV fueling stations, and with an assumption of faster charging, there will still probably be queuing.

Along with limits or surcharges when charging past 80%, the industry should create a common queuing system so that the process is more orderly. Some software standards across apps and EV fueling stations that will not let you charge unless your ticket number (i.e. like a deli) is ready.

I know most of the stations I see are not really setup for orderly lines, and I had one instance where another driver wanted to "top off" while I was next and got ticked at me, though I was "in-line" first and under 20% charge. Fast forward to the headlines that say EVs are dangerous because of fights breaking out at EV fueling stations ?

 

[GreaseMonkey]

Convenience was the main point, but cost is a factor for most buyers too (EVs generally cost 5-dgits more to buy than comparable ICE and the savings from cheap residential rates are a big part of offsetting that).

But sure, there's always a segment of the market that has plenty of money and doesn't mind paying more. That's why there's cars that cost $100k+. Someone buying a Lucid, for instance, isn't as likely to care about costs. But it's a little different for mainstream buyers that are more cost conscious.

Totally agree. Hence the dip in sales growth.

 

[AZBill]

Faster charging batteries would be nice too. 30-60 minutes to charge each vehicle is too long for high population use. Fast charging a 400V car can be done much quicker if you temporarily reconfigure the batteries into a 1600V block. That would obviously require redesigning every EV battery pack out there, but ti would be one way to reduce charging times. With a 1600V battery you can recharge 99 KWH in about 10 minutes, with moderate cooling.

This is only true if the limiting factor is the charger current. If each battery cell is at its limit already, changing the input voltage has no benefit. Each cell ends up with the same KW charge rate.

 

[AZBill]

The two sites that Tesla had PR issues with ~5 years ago are Kettleman City and Quartzite. I assume both are popular stops because a vehicle with 300 miles of Range can get from LA to San Jose, San Francisco or Sacramento and Palm Springs to Phoenix with one stop at either of those locations. Telsa jumped on it after those pictures of mile long lines went viral. They installed an additional 56 chargers in Kettleman and an additional 28 in Quartzite.

Tesla, even though so many people hate them, actually had mobile service deployed to both of the aforementioned locations on standby over the entire Thanksgiving weekend to ensure that all chargers and cars were operational.

And PSA - Don't try to charge a non Tesla at a Tesla Supercharger without magicdock, it won't work.

Tesla added 84 new chargers in Quartzsite at a new location, so Quartzsite now has 120 super chargers. EA has 4 and Rivian has 6 there.

 

[clsmooths]

I was just looking at the I5 station north of LA and Quartzsite, AZ east of San Diego. There are up to 3 1/2 hour waits for an open charging stall. Yeah, it is a busy travel day but that is ridiculous. It seems that EA's pace of adding new stations has slowed significantly and I haven't heard of them expanding any stations.

Can't wait until we have access to Tesla's fast charging adapter. Will be a game changer for sure!!

 

[Space_Pony]

I hear you, but each person has different circumstances and tolerance for inconvenience. You would be shocked how many city dwellers have this issue. On an average day, you see a combination of very expensive EVs (BMW iM, Lucid, Taycans, etc.) next to the cheapest econoboxes like the Bolt and Nero. All parked at the neighborhood Target EA waiting to charge. The richest person in Illinois used to live in a condo two blocks away from me and if he (his driver, really) drove an EV, he'd be charging at the same EA along side all of us common folks.

When I bought the Mach-E, I had access to free charging at work. Since then, I moved jobs and lost the ability to charge. I among many others have been lobbying the morons on our HOA to install a charging station. I found a way to reduce the cost to $5,200 for a 48 amp charger. They seem to keep finding ways to block it. But the fight goes on.

Why don't you install your own L2 charger at your home? You would have the charger all to yourself and wouldn't have to rely on somebody else. If I didn't have a L2 in my garage, I wouldn't have an EV because it wouldn't be wise financially with the price of DCFC charging going up.

 

[ARK]

Tesla added 84 new chargers in Quartzsite at a new location, so Quartzsite now has 120 super chargers. EA has 4 and Rivian has 6 there.

It’s shocking to me that they haven’t increased capacity yet, you don’t need a PhD or MBA to see that somewhere like this would make great utilization of additional chargers. They could just copy Tesla, but apparently years after Tesla installed dozens they still have just four with no plans for any additional builds.

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