Update: Scientists Reveal how EV Fast Charging Impacts Battery Health

[ChasingCoral]

Update: Scientists Reveal how EV Fast Charging Impacts Battery Health
https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/impacts-of-fast-charging

tl;dr: "Instead, to our surprise, our analysis of more than 160,000 data points found that there was no statistically significant difference in range degradation between fast charging more than 70% of the time and fast charging less than 30% of the time. At least not yet."

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[MrLoganRoss]

“ Keep in mind that the vehicles we observed are relatively young and we do not know how these fast charged batteries will continue to age.”…….so we are going to post an article about long-term viability anyway and make it look like a quasi-peer-reviewed publication??

 

[silverelan]

That’s really interesting, thanks for sharing!

Porsche engineers told Out of Spec Reviews that they bought back from customers early high-mileage Taycans with lots of DC fast charging sessions. The engineers studied the degradation on the battery packs and concluded that there’s no appreciable loss of capacity or performance.

It’s increasingly looking like batteries with well-managed BMS and cooling systems can be DC fast charged all the time and it should not be an issue.

 

[ChasingCoral]

“ Keep in mind that the vehicles we observed are relatively young and we do not know how these fast charged batteries will continue to age.”…….so we are going to post an article about long-term viability anyway and make it look like a quasi-peer-reviewed publication??

My apologies. I missed the instructions that only peer-reviewed publications could be cited on the Mach E Forum.

 

[MrLoganRoss]

Not the point of my comment. And my comment was directed at the credibility/point of the article - not you. Lighten up.

 

[ChasingCoral]

It’s increasingly looking like batteries with well-managed BMS and cooling systems can be DC fast charged all the time and it should not be an issue.

I would say:
It’s increasingly looking like batteries with well-managed BMS and cooling systems can be DC fast charged all the time and it MAY not be an issue.

Too early to be so definitive. However,

 

[cbagwu]

My apologies. I missed the instructions that only peer-reviewed publications could be cited on the Mach E Forum.

You also must cite them in Bluebook or APA format. MLA not allowed on the forum.

 

[21st Century Pony]

You also must cite them in Bluebook or APA format. MLA not allowed on the forum.

Ah, those grad school memories (brrr...)

 

[Sikkun]

“ Keep in mind that the vehicles we observed are relatively young and we do not know how these fast charged batteries will continue to age.”…….so we are going to post an article about long-term viability anyway and make it look like a quasi-peer-reviewed publication??

They claim data back to 2012, but, I do publication mining a lot for my job.

Digital hand drawn graph is a new one for me. And I say this knowing even peer reviewed doesn’t really mean anything lol.

 

[bbulkow]

We should be able to do a low-quality estimate here on this forum, with people reporting the % of fast charging, and maybe a few other parameters, and their degradation.

This would help us, perhaps, come to a conclusion regarding Ford's BMS / curve quality regarding degradation. A statement about Porsche, or Tesla, might not apply to us - or might.

Our data would be HIGHLY biased of course. Almost not worth collecting.

My degradation numbers seem to be better than what I see other people report on the forum (1% at 20k miles at 15 months). I've been thinking it's because I don't rapid charge, but I've got enough background in Actual Science to know I've got no real data. It could be any number of things: more temperate climate, RWD means few high amp draw moments, less time owned, or pure sample bias (people who have posted have abnormal degradation).

I did do a rough pass and compare against expected charge cycles, and I think I'm worse than a basic 2,000 cycle estimate - although I need at least one more decimal place to do even basic math.

Certainly Ford, like Porsche, knows the Actual Answer because they've got probably a large percentage of all our charge percentages, times, speeds, temperatures, and enough driving data - and things like BMS versions and battery lot numbers that we'd have trouble collecting.

Cynically, though, I know Ford would love to say there's no harm to fast charging, so I might not trust them - or might take their silence as a statement that fast charging is harmful.

Sigh.

 

[HuntingPudel]

So they’re saying pretty much what we already know: While charging has a small impact on SoH, age plays a large part in impacting SoH and there are a bunch of other variables that have a small impact. ??

 

[21st Century Pony]

So they’re saying pretty much what we already know: While charging has a small impact on SoH, age plays a large part in impacting SoH and there are a bunch of other variables that have a small impact. ??

Also, manufacturers' probable continuous incremental improvements in high voltage battery subcomponents and its software management systems also have cumulative impacts. I'd bet that the Dec 2021 battery system is not identical to the Dec 2022 battery system, which is not identical to the Dec 2023 battery system, etc, etc.

 

[Billyk24]

Also, manufacturers' probable continuous incremental improvements in high voltage battery subcomponents and its software management systems also have cumulative impacts. I'd bet that the Dec 2021 battery system is not identical to the Dec 2022 battery system, which is not identical to the Dec 2023 battery system, etc, etc.

Maybe. The chronic HVBJB issue for all years might suggest something else.

 

[21st Century Pony]

Maybe. The chronic HVBJB issue for all years might suggest something else.

The well-documented issue and attempted fixes for one subsystem of the high voltage battery i.e. its contactor heat-related malfunctions is but one area of the system-of-systems high voltage battery ecology.

Its battery management software is but another such subsystem, and we all know how many software updates have been applied there since 2021.

Its internal cell design technology is yet another... and its internal busbar technology which links these cells together is yet another one... and its battery cooling system is yet another.

I'm certain there have been design and manufacturing updates applied in the past three years, likely perhaps at the subcomponent manufacturer level... and therefore they are unseen.

 

[Teslaeata]

We should be able to do a low-quality estimate here on this forum, with people reporting the % of fast charging, and maybe a few other parameters, and their degradation.

This would help us, perhaps, come to a conclusion regarding Ford's BMS / curve quality regarding degradation. A statement about Porsche, or Tesla, might not apply to us - or might.

Our data would be HIGHLY biased of course. Almost not worth collecting.

My degradation numbers seem to be better than what I see other people report on the forum (1% at 20k miles at 15 months). I've been thinking it's because I don't rapid charge, but I've got enough background in Actual Science to know I've got no real data. It could be any number of things: more temperate climate, RWD means few high amp draw moments, less time owned, or pure sample bias (people who have posted have abnormal degradation).

I did do a rough pass and compare against expected charge cycles, and I think I'm worse than a basic 2,000 cycle estimate - although I need at least one more decimal place to do even basic math.

Certainly Ford, like Porsche, knows the Actual Answer because they've got probably a large percentage of all our charge percentages, times, speeds, temperatures, and enough driving data - and things like BMS versions and battery lot numbers that we'd have trouble collecting.

Cynically, though, I know Ford would love to say there's no harm to fast charging, so I might not trust them - or might take their silence as a statement that fast charging is harmful.

Sigh.

I poured c30,000kwH into mine.

c7,500kWh on DCFC mostly to less than 80% each time.

The other 22,500kWh were virtually always in charges to 100% at home.

SoH currently 93% at nearly 3years & 87,800 miles.

Is not entirely scientific, can’t see how it ever could be as everybody’s usage and charge habits must, by definition, differ.

Until I update the spreadsheet is about as accurate as I am able to quote for mine.

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