Charging FAIL & GREAT Surprise When We Compare The Model Y & Mach-E On The World’s Toughest EV Test!

[TFLtommy]

The standard battery version of the MME actually has a max charging rate of 115kW, not that you were getting anywhere near that anyway. The extended range battery is rated for 150kW.

I was told at the launch the Premium SR has a max charging rate of 150kW and the Select was rated at 115kW. Thanks for the heads up though I'll do some digging!

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[BlueMach]

I was told at the launch the Premium SR has a max charging rate of 150kW and the Select was rated at 115kW. Thanks for the heads up though I'll do some digging!

If they said that, they were incorrect, but I see why they'd make that mistake as most Premiums seem to be ERs that go to media. The SR pack has fewer cells than the ER pack, so the charge rate is lower due to that hardware limitation. Same reason a Model 3 SR charges slower than a Model 3 LR, the cells have the same charge current limit, and a SR car has fewer cells to multiply that across.

 

[TFLtommy]

If they said that, they were incorrect, but I see why they'd make that mistake as most Premiums seem to be ERs that go to media. The SR pack has fewer cells than the ER pack, so the charge rate is lower due to that hardware limitation. Same reason a Model 3 SR charges slower than a Model 3 LR, the cells have the same charge current limit, and a SR car has fewer cells to multiply that across.

Great to know, thanks! I'll post a correction.

 

[Shayne]

I initially had proposed bringing them back to the office to see the exact kWh delivered using our level 2 charger, but we decided to test out the EA plug and charge instead. However if we do some simple math:

The Mustang has a 68kWh usable capacity and used 70% over the test: That equates to about 47.6kWh used in the 143 mile test.

The Model Y has about a 72.5 kWh usable capacity (according to the folks I've talked to) and used 56% over the test. That equates to about 40.6kWh used in the 143 mile test.

Appears you guys have a lot of snow there also to play in ?. You noted a not so good mach-e consumption rate going up hill (2.41 mi/kw?) what were temps that day?

 

[BlueMach]

Great to know, thanks! I'll post a correction.

To be really technical, the Standard Range battery is a "3P96S" with 288 cells split across 3 parallel banks of 96 cells in series. The Extended Range battery is a "4P94S" battery with 376 cells split across 4 parallel banks of 94 cells in series.

115kW / 288 cells = 399.3 W/cell
150kW / 376 cells = 398.9 W/cell

"Watts per cell" isn't really a thing, but it's a way to visualize that the maximum charge rate is being divided per cell equally between the 2 packs, and that it's not a marketing limitation, it's a physics limitation.

Assuming 400V, you can get a 1A charge rate per cell assumption, but we don't know the Mach-E's nominal voltage at that peak charge rate yet.

Since the 4P battery has a lower number of cells in series, its voltage range will be slightly lower, which is reflected in that lower "watts/cell" metric (Watts = Volts * Amps)

 

[generaltso]

I was told at the launch the Premium SR has a max charging rate of 150kW and the Select was rated at 115kW. Thanks for the heads up though I'll do some digging!

Yeah, a lot of people were confused by this when the documentation was first released. The Select was listed as having "up to 115kW" charging speed. The Premium was listed as having "up to 150kW" charging speed. This lead a lot of people (including myself) to believe that the standard range Premium would be capable of 150kW. But the only reason those "up to" numbers were listed that way was because the Premium is available with the ER battery and the Select is not.

 

[Awmustang]

Thank you sir! I appreciate you sharing them here, have been enjoying the discussion!

Been a long time TFL watcher as well. Really enjoy the slip tests. It's a great way to highlight that not all AWD or 4WD systems are created equal. Keep up the good work. Maybe give your dad a Snickers before you head to a non-Tesla charging station. He always seems so grumpy.

Also, it seemed like the navigation systems were not set in either car. I'd be curious to see if that made a difference (as Ford claims it should) in the predicted range accuracy.

 

[timbop]

I initially had proposed bringing them back to the office to see the exact kWh delivered using our level 2 charger, but we decided to test out the EA plug and charge instead. However if we do some simple math:

The Mustang has a 68kWh usable capacity and used 70% over the test: That equates to about 47.6kWh used in the 143 mile test.

The Model Y has about a 72.5 kWh usable capacity (according to the folks I've talked to) and used 56% over the test. That equates to about 40.6kWh used in the 143 mile test.

OK, so that comes out to 3 mi/kwh for the MME and 3.5 mi/kwh for the Y. Not bad for either given the conditions. It is definitely not a good sign that the EA chargers had so many issues, though.

Oh, and good to see you joining the discussions!

 

[Shayne]

Yeah, a lot of people were confused by this when the documentation was first released. The Select was listed as having "up to 115kW" charging speed. The Premium was listed as having "up to 150kW" charging speed. This lead a lot of people (including myself) to believe that the standard range Premium would be capable of 150kW. But the only reason those "up to" numbers were listed that way was because the Premium is available with the ER battery and the Select is not.

It is the bigger battery that can take the higher charge? I would be jumping with 90 KW to 80% and "ramping" to lower going to 90%. Never going to sit to 100% I do not think. The math that equals the 45 minutes charge up to 80% advertised (10% to 80%?) I thought was around 88KWh x 70% = 62 KWh, 90 KW x 45 mins/60 m/hr = 67 KWh.

That is what is advertised and I do not think Ford will be way off that. One would assume when you are transferring that type of power safe guards are required. One computer talking to another requires a handshake and mutual trust. With a persons hand on it most likely has a few more checks and conditions that must be met than many other connections. This is something that will get handled with software I think. Saw two report from Norway and both did not have this problem. 80 to 90 KW has been reported and appears to be as Ford has said.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Loving the multi-part Mach E test videos @TFLtommy! Out of curiosity, when was that Mach E built? did you photograph the VIN plate inside the driver door that shows this?

 

[TheSteelRider]

Loving the multi-part Mach E test videos @TFLtommy! Out of curiosity, when was that Mach E built? did you photograph the VIN plate inside the driver door that shows this?

I second the welcome! You might particularly like, and your dad will particularly dislike this comment (and comments near this one) with respect to the Model Y vs. the Mach E.

(https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...engineering-friends-in-mexico.1100/post-30109)

TFL said it best .. a catfish.

On a serious note, please keep up the good work! Those of us with a Mach E on order really want to see more of these comparison style videos. Most of us here on this forum think that more competition in EVs is better overall, so keep those vids coming !!!!

 

[Mach-E VLOG]

When I finally get my Mach-E, I am going to try to somewhat duplicate this test. I have the AWD, ER (First Edition) coming, so it will be interesting to see the difference. I was already planning to do a similar test -- from the Colorado State Capitol in Denver to the Continental Divide and back. I figured it would be useful to see how much charge you lose climbing and how much you gain coming back down. But I can also try to duplicate this video a bit and even stop at the same charger.

 

[generaltso]

It is the bigger battery that can take the higher charge?

Yes, the bigger battery has a higher peak charge rate. Whether that really ends up meaning anything in the real world remains to be seen. So far, the only tests that I've seen that get close to 150kW don't maintain that speed for more than a minute or two.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Yes, the bigger battery has a higher peak charge rate. Whether that really ends up meaning anything in the real world remains to be seen. So far, the only tests that I've seen that get close to 150kW don't maintain that speed for more than a minute or two.

If that holds, it means we really only need 100 kW chargers, not 150, as the charging time difference may be minimal.

 

[Metv707]

I’m new to electric vehicles and charging. Putting aside the Mach E vs Y competition, should I be worried about the Mach E charging ability (since that is what I bought and not the Tesla) or is this more about the charging stations?

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