2024 Mach-E charging curve comparison vs. 2021 Mach-E

[silverelan]

So what's interesting with mach-e is because it's not state of charge based, in theory as long as it can take the full 450amps and be under max voltage, your time to add x amount of % back (ending under 80%) should actually be the same. I'd be interested if you graph it starting at 20% and 10% to see how different the curve is. If you do it in excel you can just drag the 20% curve to match the 10% one and make a chart to see the difference. I've noticed usually it charges slightly faster the higher the SOC due to voltage being greater (volts x amps =kW)

For sure! I used to be completely confident that you could slide the charging curve around and that it’d be nearly identical starting from anywhere between 0% to 50%. I’m not as sure anymore.

Lightning has (had?) the same strategy and it was well documented with Tom Moloughney’s graph.

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[The Electric Duo]

10-80% on a 350kW station would for sure answer a lot of questions! Your charging session going 2-100% was really important but it’s not clear anymore if that experience gets directly replicated. That is, is 2% to 72% the same as 10% to 80%?

Thanks Merchy!

@Mach-E VLOG any chance you will do a Blucifer Twocifer charging race when you test the 2024? Might be interesting to see the differences in action!

I was thinking about doing something like that. It would be interesting to find someone in the local area with a 2024 and then go charge somewhere side-by-side. I'm hoping that at some point Ford adds some 2024 Mach-Es to their media loaner fleet. I'd also like to test a LFP Mach-E.

 

[Nolanbro]

For sure! I used to be completely confident that you could slide the charging curve around and that it’d be nearly identical starting from anywhere between 0% to 50%. I’m not as sure anymore.

Lightning has (had?) the same strategy and it was well documented with Tom Moloughney’s graph.

I do believe there is a "sweet" spot to this. I think starting at 0, 10, 20, and maybe 25 would give us the best information. Starting much higher I think will have the curve taper early due to pack voltage becoming too high. I'm going on a road trip in July and will document just about everything I can and hopefully provide some insight

 

[Angelnx1985]

10-80% on a 350kW station would for sure answer a lot of questions! Your charging session going 2-100% was really important but it’s not clear anymore if that experience gets directly replicated. That is, is 2% to 72% the same as 10% to 80%?

Thanks Merchy!

@Mach-E VLOG any chance you will do a Blucifer Twocifer charging race when you test the 2024? Might be interesting to see the differences in action!

So this will be first secret for everyone on here reading this, but when I bring my '21 first edition in for tire change (gonna use my reward points to cover the cost) the sales team and I will be talking about possibly trading in for '24 GT! Reason being, my first edition was have been getting "first year model" problems and so it might be that time. In meantime, I'll try to get this video test out asap.

 

[Angelnx1985]

video out soon!

 

[silverelan]

Can’t wait to see this one!

 

[Nolanbro]

video out soon!

2024?

 

[silverelan]

2024?

It’s a pre-refresh MME. Same one he did the 0-100% test in.

 

[Triggerhappy007]

It’s a pre-refresh MME. Same one he did the 0-100% test in.

He said he was planning on trading his FE in for a 24 GT.

 

[Nolanbro]

The original charging profile was time based and per Darren Palmer was designed for the most consistently optimal 15-20 minute charging session experience in the worst scenarios. The strategy was that owners can count on the same charging speeds pretty much anywhere along the SoC range between 0-50%.

15 mins = 30% recharge
20 mins = 40% recharge

I'm wondering if that "20 mins = 40%" bracket has changed/improved. Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic.

So I can tell you this. I just did a 15 minute charge, and added back 32%. So right in line with that. Ill have to see what 20 min does but my guess is it will be similar to.

Looking at old ABRP data a 20 min charge added 42% to my car. I think the difference would be in a 25 or 30 minute charge.

 

[silverelan]

video out soon!

How’s the editing going?

 

[Angelnx1985]

Hey everyone! Sorry took so long, had to prioritize my life and took me over. But jts finally done! On a '21 MME it took 39 minutes. Did multiple tests on a 350kw machine and all resulted the same.

 

[YeOldeTraveller]

Definitely seeing some boost at the start of the session.

I had a SC session that peaked at 153 KW starting around 40%, but the 5% to 80% session peaked above 152 KW, but was near 100 KW at 40%.

I need to figure out how to get Car Scanner to save the data I need so I can record charging sessions.

ETA: The 5% to 80% session held ~92 KW until 77%, dropped to 89 KW at 79%. Did a few weird things between there and 80%. Total time was 38:30.

 

[Nolanbro]

Hey again!

I decided to log the charge rate of my new ID.4 in comparison with my old Mach-E and the 2024 Mach-E with the new thermal modeling.

This charge curve isn't a perfect apple to apples comparison due to me using an EA station limited to 475 amps (idk why), and starting at a higher SOC of 17% compared to 10%. I also logged the Battery temp and was surprised of how hot the ID.4 battery gets. The mach-e never really went over 104F in my testing and usually seemed to have the A/C compressor at max rpm at that temp also. ID.4 was silent to about 110 when the compressor really spooled up. To note ambient temp was about 75 during testing and was done at night.

The 475 amp limitation of the charger was indeed a limitation. In previous experience, the car has drawn a full 500amps and was charging at 201 kW as indicated by the station. I forget what went into the battery but my guess was about 190.

The second graph is showing amp draw. Its pretty clear the ford used a constant current request while the vw does not. The ford had an interesting way of handling charging. It basically assumed everything was overheating and that it was worst case scenario. The charge curve acually allowed the max kW to be achieved all the way up to about 45% in my testing. The concept behind it was as long as you were under 50% or so, the car would take the same time to add 30% and 40% back to the battery. I believe it was 15 and 20 minutes. This was pretty much accurate if you plugged in dead or at 30%. IMO this way is dumb but for the uneducated EV driver their car tecinally performs as advertised regardless of their poor road trip style.

Pretty crazy how much the ID.4 is ahead of the Mach-E. Its a substantial difference. This 17 to 80% only took me 24 minutes, and the ID.4 is more efficient. Hopefully, a chemistry change will come for the Mach-E.

Something else to note is the delta T for ID.4 is much less than the Ford, only around 5 degrees F compared to upwards of 15-20 in the Ford. It is surprising considering they use a similar cooling strategy.

Also who knows if the 24' charge rate will fry junction boxes or not lol

 

[Mach-Lee]

Hey again!

I decided to log the charge rate of my new ID.4 in comparison with my old Mach-E and the 2024 Mach-E with the new thermal modeling.

This charge curve isn't a perfect apple to apples comparison due to me using an EA station limited to 475 amps (idk why), and starting at a higher SOC of 17% compared to 10%. I also logged the Battery temp and was surprised of how hot the ID.4 battery gets. The mach-e never really went over 104F in my testing and usually seemed to have the A/C compressor at max rpm at that temp also. ID.4 was silent to about 110 when the compressor really spooled up. To note ambient temp was about 75 during testing and was done at night.

The 475 amp limitation of the charger was indeed a limitation. In previous experience, the car has drawn a full 500amps and was charging at 201 kW as indicated by the station. I forget what went into the battery but my guess was about 190.

The second graph is showing amp draw. Its pretty clear the ford used a constant current request while the vw does not. The ford had an interesting way of handling charging. It basically assumed everything was overheating and that it was worst case scenario. The charge curve acually allowed the max kW to be achieved all the way up to about 45% in my testing. The concept behind it was as long as you were under 50% or so, the car would take the same time to add 30% and 40% back to the battery. I believe it was 15 and 20 minutes. This was pretty much accurate if you plugged in dead or at 30%. IMO this way is dumb but for the uneducated EV driver their car tecinally performs as advertised regardless of their poor road trip style.

Pretty crazy how much the ID.4 is ahead of the Mach-E. Its a substantial difference. This 17 to 80% only took me 24 minutes, and the ID.4 is more efficient. Hopefully, a chemistry change will come for the Mach-E.

Something else to note is the delta T for ID.4 is much less than the Ford, only around 5 degrees F compared to upwards of 15-20 in the Ford. It is surprising considering they use a similar cooling strategy.

Also who knows if the 24' charge rate will fry junction boxes or not lol

The ID.4 has a nice smooth charging curve Ford should aspire to. I think the Mach-E is limited to 450 amps or less, so a charger limit of 475 amps will still provide max power unless there is also a charger power limitation. I have not heard of anyone getting more than 165 kW in a Mach-E. No offense, but I think you’re misremembering seeing 200 kW on a Mach-E.

Ford is excessively paranoid about the cell temps and limits it to only 104°F. They should allow up to 122°F during DC charge like everybody else does (Tesla goes up to like 140°F). I think the ID.4 uses similar LG cells, so I’m really not sure why Fords charging curve is so nerfed in comparison.

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