Or even in the actual production units. I think every report we've heard so far is only pre-production units. Don't think we've heard of a DCFC charge experience from a single customer unit yet.
I think a lot of people are going to be surprised when they first try level 3 charging in colder temps (below 40F) and disappointed/unhappy when they don't see the full speeds, not realizing the battery packs aren't at optimal temps. It happens with the Teslas even with the pre-conditioning on the drive to the charger.
Man, even 33 mins would be very fast and I don't think anyone here would complain too much if the MME did that.I think a lot of people are going to be surprised when they first try level 3 charging in colder temps (below 40F) and disappointed/unhappy when they don't see the full speeds, not realizing the battery packs aren't at optimal temps. It happens with the Teslas even with the pre-conditioning on the drive to the charger.
Below is a V3 / 250 kW Supercharger on my 2020 Model Y, ambient temps were at 33F (wind chill around 20F).
I drove about 90 minutes and arrived at my in-laws house and had lunch, so the car sat idle for 90 minutes. The battery pack was at 64F when I arrived at my in-law's home, 17% SoC.
I entered the Tesla supercharger location in the NAV to start the pre-conditioning process. Battery pack was at 51F, so a drop of 13F in 90 minutes while parked outside. UI was displaying the snow flake icon, 11% SoC displayed on the UI, 14% displayed in Scan My Tesla app, so I "lost" 3% due to the colder battery. After about 8 minutes, the snow flake icon disappeared when the battery pack temp reached around 58F and the UI was showing 14%. In hindsight, I should've logged the pre-conditioning drive to the supercharger to show all this data. A few random things I've noted: the front stator motor only gets to around 120F during the process, consuming 2 kW. This isn't as effective as preconditioning parked, where the front motor can reach 210F. During the 20 minute drive to the supercharger, the battery pack went from 51F to 68F, which is well below what is needed to see the full speeds at a Level 3 charger. Ideally you want the battery pack to be closer to 100F if you want to see the full charging speeds.
Below is the graph of the charging session. As noted in the title and footers, the ambient temp was 33F, wind 10-15 mph, with gusts up to 25F. I started the charge at 9.8% SoC, ended at 80%, total duration of 33 minutes.
You can see the stator motors quickly heating up and within 2 minutes the front motors were at 219F, the rear motors were at 176F. The battery packs started at 69F, ended at 131F.
In about 90 seconds after plugging in is where I saw the max charge rate of only 157 kW and then tapering off over time, as shown on the graph. At 20% SoC, the battery packs were only 80F, or around 3.5 minutes into the charge. The battery packs hit the optimal temp of 100F a little after 9 minutes but by then, the SoC was at 35% and the BMS had already started throttling back the charge to 113 kW.
In summer, this would be showing 250 kW up to around 20% SoC and then it would taper off, but it'll be tough to get those charging speeds with the current temperatures in winter. This charging session took about 33 minutes; in the summer, it would've taken about 22 minutes.
Battery preconditioning before fast charging is a basic feature if you're launching an EV in 2021, I'm truly stunned Mach-E doesn't have it. I have to believe it's in the first OTA.I think a lot of people are going to be surprised when they first try level 3 charging in colder temps (below 40F) and disappointed/unhappy when they don't see the full speeds, not realizing the battery packs aren't at optimal temps. It happens with the Teslas even with the pre-conditioning on the drive to the charger.
Below is a V3 / 250 kW Supercharger on my 2020 Model Y, ambient temps were at 33F (wind chill around 20F).
I drove about 90 minutes and arrived at my in-laws house and had lunch, so the car sat idle for 90 minutes. The battery pack was at 64F when I arrived at my in-law's home, 17% SoC.
I entered the Tesla supercharger location in the NAV to start the pre-conditioning process. Battery pack was at 51F, so a drop of 13F in 90 minutes while parked outside. UI was displaying the snow flake icon, 11% SoC displayed on the UI, 14% displayed in Scan My Tesla app, so I "lost" 3% due to the colder battery. After about 8 minutes, the snow flake icon disappeared when the battery pack temp reached around 58F and the UI was showing 14%. In hindsight, I should've logged the pre-conditioning drive to the supercharger to show all this data. A few random things I've noted: the front stator motor only gets to around 120F during the process, consuming 2 kW. This isn't as effective as preconditioning parked, where the front motor can reach 210F. During the 20 minute drive to the supercharger, the battery pack went from 51F to 68F, which is well below what is needed to see the full speeds at a Level 3 charger. Ideally you want the battery pack to be closer to 100F if you want to see the full charging speeds.
Below is the graph of the charging session. As noted in the title and footers, the ambient temp was 33F, wind 10-15 mph, with gusts up to 25F. I started the charge at 9.8% SoC, ended at 80%, total duration of 33 minutes.
You can see the stator motors quickly heating up and within 2 minutes the front motors were at 219F, the rear motors were at 176F. The battery packs started at 69F, ended at 131F.
In about 90 seconds after plugging in is where I saw the max charge rate of only 157 kW and then tapering off over time, as shown on the graph. At 20% SoC, the battery packs were only 80F, or around 3.5 minutes into the charge. The battery packs hit the optimal temp of 100F a little after 9 minutes but by then, the SoC was at 35% and the BMS had already started throttling back the charge to 113 kW.
In summer, this would be showing 250 kW up to around 20% SoC and then it would taper off, but it'll be tough to get those charging speeds with the current temperatures in winter. This charging session took about 33 minutes; in the summer, it would've taken about 22 minutes.
I have credible information suggesting that you're correct.
I hope your credible source also says the charging profile & time improves
Battery pack at 131F on v3? That seems too high for safety. I keep my Cmax under 93 or turn off the charging. Or resort to 120v power. We need a temperature chart of the battery while charging.I think a lot of people are going to be surprised when they first try level 3 charging in colder temps (below 40F) and disappointed/unhappy when they don't see the full speeds, not realizing the battery packs aren't at optimal temps. It happens with the Teslas even with the pre-conditioning on the drive to the charger.
Below is a V3 / 250 kW Supercharger on my 2020 Model Y, ambient temps were at 33F (wind chill around 20F).
I drove about 90 minutes and arrived at my in-laws house and had lunch, so the car sat idle for 90 minutes. The battery pack was at 64F when I arrived at my in-law's home, 17% SoC.
I entered the Tesla supercharger location in the NAV to start the pre-conditioning process. Battery pack was at 51F, so a drop of 13F in 90 minutes while parked outside. UI was displaying the snow flake icon, 11% SoC displayed on the UI, 14% displayed in Scan My Tesla app, so I "lost" 3% due to the colder battery. After about 8 minutes, the snow flake icon disappeared when the battery pack temp reached around 58F and the UI was showing 14%. In hindsight, I should've logged the pre-conditioning drive to the supercharger to show all this data. A few random things I've noted: the front stator motor only gets to around 120F during the process, consuming 2 kW. This isn't as effective as preconditioning parked, where the front motor can reach 210F. During the 20 minute drive to the supercharger, the battery pack went from 51F to 68F, which is well below what is needed to see the full speeds at a Level 3 charger. Ideally you want the battery pack to be closer to 100F if you want to see the full charging speeds.
Below is the graph of the charging session. As noted in the title and footers, the ambient temp was 33F, wind 10-15 mph, with gusts up to 25F. I started the charge at 9.8% SoC, ended at 80%, total duration of 33 minutes.
You can see the stator motors quickly heating up and within 2 minutes the front motors were at 219F, the rear motors were at 176F. The battery packs started at 69F, ended at 131F.
In about 90 seconds after plugging in is where I saw the max charge rate of only 157 kW and then tapering off over time, as shown on the graph. At 20% SoC, the battery packs were only 80F, or around 3.5 minutes into the charge. The battery packs hit the optimal temp of 100F a little after 9 minutes but by then, the SoC was at 35% and the BMS had already started throttling back the charge to 113 kW.
In summer, this would be showing 250 kW up to around 20% SoC and then it would taper off, but it'll be tough to get those charging speeds with the current temperatures in winter. This charging session took about 33 minutes; in the summer, it would've taken about 22 minutes.
131 is perfectly fine since the Tesla cooling system is capable of handling the heat. The packs want to be around 100-125F for V3 charging, which it was until the tail end of the session.
Can you print out/display a Tesla charge curve with the battery temperature? Never seen one before. Have always read Lithium Ion needs to stay at temperatures that humans tolerate well. 125F is too high for humans.
I'm not sure if one exists, at least I haven't seen one. Most of the charge curves are based upon state of charge. I'm logging all my data but I don't use Tesla superchargers often, but I will for the next 7-8 months since I have 2000 free miles to use up. I'll be logging data over winter and more in the summer when it gets warmer.
Tesla runs the batteries hot on purpose. Their preconditioning raises the temp to around 40C if I recall correctly. That's usually what most batteries aren't supposed to go above, but Tesla seems to deliberately charge that hot. Some owners have speculated it's to reduce the wear on the battery with Tesla's specific anode chemistry, but I'm not an expert.
Correct. Full charging speed won't be seen unless it's under 20% SoC and the battery packs are at around 40C to 52C (100-125F). The system is also pumping through about 16 liters per minute (4.2 gallons) of refrigerant through the battery pack. At normal/idle, it's around 6 lpm (1.58 gpm).
I hope Ford puts out a development roadmap for OTAs.
