Plug & Charge Fail and the 80% Cliff is Real

[dbsb3233]

If driving an EV turns a drive from one day to two, you should not be making that drive in an EV. You're going to spend $50k to end up with a much worse experience? Drive the escape, or rent an ice. It just doesn't make sense yet.

Yeah, it's a close call. Pros and cons both ways.

This particular route (Denver-Vegas) is normally 12 hours door-to-door in the Escape (incl. 2 fuel stops, one being lunch). It's right at the margin anyway for our tastes to do in one day. When younger, we'd do it same day easily. More tolerance when younger, and time off from work was precious. But as we got older and retired, we started splitting the eastbound drive into 2 days to keep it all in daylight. And lately we've even broken up the westbound drive a few times too, depending on the season (more daylight in the summer to work with). So it was already right at the margin driving ICE.

But adding 2.5 hours for charging stops pushes it to 14.5 hours and totally out of a 1-day window. We'll try it in the Mach-E on our next drive just for the fun of it, and then we'll see what we wanna do on future drives. There's no question it adds hours of travel time to a long drive, but we may find we're OK with that slower stop-and-go pace now that we're older. Would have driven me up the wall 30 years ago though. Everyone's preferences and tolerances are different for that type of drive.

(Before anyone asks, yes, we've flown the route over 50 times too, but lately we've taken a liking to doing the drive again, especially during COVID.)

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[dbsb3233]

Charging curves are dependent on both the car and the station. The car has much greater influence but the station can and does factor into it.

That's one thing I hadn't fully grasped the extent of on this learning process the last 15 months. We see charge curves for various BEVs around the internet, and we tend to just take them at face value. But turns out they're usually at or near perfect conditions. They rarely publish the ones that are 30% worse when it's 35F in January in MI or CO or NY, not 70F in CA.

Nice perfect 60F-80F weather is more the exception for most of the US & Canada than the rule.

 

[TheSteelRider]

That's one thing I hadn't fully grasped the extent of on this learning process the last 15 months. We see charge curves for various BEVs around the internet, and we tend to just take them at face value. But turns out they're usually at or near perfect conditions. They rarely publish the ones that are 30% worse when it's 35F in January in MI or CO or NY, not 70F in CA.

Nice perfect 60F-80F weather is more the exception for most of the US & Canada than the rule.

+1

Being a BEV newbie, my brain is exploding. In fact, I've made the decision that one of the first things I am going to do if / when (sorry, it's been delayed so long have to include the if .. hehe) I finally get my Mach I is take a road trip. I think maybe the only way to learn is to try it out.

 

[Randy E.]

I did some different, it not more "simple" math on the charging cost vs per gallon of gas. I'm assuming this Mach-E can go 270 miles on a full charge?... Did I miss their configuration?

The EA display photo he took at 80% charge cost $27.52. However, he started charging on that station 12%. Thus, for $27.52, the Mach-E gained 68% charge.

With a range of 270 miles, 68% = 184 miles (obviously, cold, hot, lots of variables, but I'm just running with simple numbers - trying to do so).

So for $27.52 the Mach-E gained an additional 184 miles, or $0.14956 per mile.

At $0.15 per mile, that's $3.75 every 25 miles... Compare that against a gas powered CUV that averages 25 mpg. Yikes!

In Oregon (at Costco) regular runs $2.25 per gallon.

Is it me, or is that just really expensive electricity?!...

 

[hybrid2bev]

I did some different, it not more "simple" math on the charging cost vs per gallon of gas. I'm assuming this Mach-E can go 270 miles on a full charge?... Did I miss their configuration?

The EA display photo he took at 80% charge cost $27.52. However, he started charging on that station 12%. Thus, for $27.52, the Mach-E gained 68% charge.

With a range of 270 miles, 68% = 184 miles (obviously, cold, hot, lots of variables, but I'm just running with simple numbers - trying to do so).

So for $27.52 the Mach-E gained an additional 184 miles, or $0.14956 per mile.

At $0.15 per mile, that's $3.75 every 25 miles... Compare that against a gas powered CUV that averages 25 mpg. Yikes!

In Oregon (at Costco) regular runs $2.25 per gallon.

Is it me, or is that just really expensive electricity?!...

What I posted was using the guest rate of $0.43 per kWh. If you're an EA member it's $0.31 per kWH here in MI.

If we use the EA member rate (which I would be a member if using EA frequently/road tripping)
65 kWh x $0.31 = $20.15 / 184 = $0.109 per mile. $0.11 x 25 miles = $2.75 so yes it costs more but competitive with your $2.25 per gallon example.

 

[solarmoo900]

What I posted was using the guest rate of $0.43 per kWh. If you're an EA member it's $0.31 per kWH here in MI.

If we use the EA member rate (which I would be a member if using EA frequently/road tripping)
65 kWh x $0.31 = $20.15 / 184 = $0.109 per mile. $0.11 x 25 miles = $2.75 so yes it costs more but competitive with your $2.25 per gallon example.

But then you are kind of "cheating" because you're ignoring the membership costs, right? Lets say you need to use a public charger 4 times a month, at $4 a month for Plugshare+ that means you're close to the $3.75 the other poster quoted. Obviously that goes down if you use public charging more often but I think 4 times a month is more than most people with home charging would plan to use

 

[ChasingCoral]

And explaining the best way to utilize this service. Seems like some basic unanswered questions in this thread that should already be part of the delivery speech by the dealer.

I’ll take instructions from Ford. I doubt my dealer would take the time to get this right.

 

[zvez]

am I imagining things. It seems the cost to charge using public stations is just as expensive as putting gas in the tank? ie no cost savings electric vs. gas if using public sites?

Chris

 

[hybrid2bev]

But then you are kind of "cheating" because you're ignoring the membership costs, right? Lets say you need to use a public charger 4 times a month, at $4 a month for Plugshare+ that means you're close to the $3.75 the other poster quoted. Obviously that goes down if you use public charging more often but I think 4 times a month is more than most people with home charging would plan to use

So let's say I use EA 4 times at 65 kWH.

Non-Member: $0.43 x 65 kWh = $27.95 x 4 sessions = $111.80
Member Rates $0.31 x 65 kWh = $20.15 x 4 sessions = $80.60 + $4 membership fee = $84.60
Still $27.20 cheaper per month to have the EA membership.

Non-Member: $0.43 x 65 kWh = $27.95 / 184 = $0.1519 per mile
Member Rates $0.31 x 65 kWh = $20.15 + (prorated $4 = $1 per session) = $21.15 / 184 = $0.1149 per mile instead of the prior $0.109 per mile not including the monthly membership fee

 

[SnBGC]

That's one thing I hadn't fully grasped the extent of on this learning process the last 15 months. We see charge curves for various BEVs around the internet, and we tend to just take them at face value. But turns out they're usually at or near perfect conditions. They rarely publish the ones that are 30% worse when it's 35F in January in MI or CO or NY, not 70F in CA.

Nice perfect 60F-80F weather is more the exception for most of the US & Canada than the rule.

Yeah.....it's a lot to digest. I am still learning and I've been driving an EV for 2 years now. The more I learn, the more I realize I how much there is to learn still. The truth is that DCFC isn't really all that important. The time it takes is the time it takes and once we get used to it then we can plan accordingly. If you are a frequent road tripper then some trips will be a piece of cake with the MME. Some will be marginal and some just flat out impossible right now. For those last two.....just rent a car or take your ICE (if you are a multiple car household).

When DCFCing....it could be looked at a little bit like having two bottles of Coke. One is full and the other is almost empty. Open the full one and begin pouring. How fast you pour makes a difference in how much gets transferred into that nearly empty bottle. The temperature of each matters as well. Pre-conditioning......shaken vs unshaken etc.

For those here that are new to EVs.....I think I would recommend against taking a road trip in your MME right away. Get used to the car first, drive it around your area and gradually venture out further and further. After a few weeks and you are feeling comfortable then go for it. Ask questions and those here that are road trip experts will help us avoid common assumptions that can lead to unpleasant experiences. It's just a different way of life and one that is very hard to understand until you live it. I do think it is worth it though. I doubt I will ever buy an ICE vehicle again. ?

 

[solarmoo900]

So let's say I use EA 4 times at 65 kWH.

Non-Member: $0.43 x 65 kWh = $27.95 x 4 sessions = $111.80
Member Rates $0.31 x 65 kWh = $20.15 x 4 sessions = $80.60 + $4 membership fee = $84.60
Still $27.20 cheaper per month to have the EA membership.

Non-Member: $0.43 x 65 kWh = $27.95 / 184 = $0.1519 per mile
Member Rates $0.31 x 65 kWh = $20.15 + (prorated $4 = $1 per session) = $21.15 / 184 = $0.1149 per mile instead of the prior $0.109 per mile not including the monthly membership fee

Oh, i'm not arguing the membership isn't cheaper overall at all, thank you for redoing your math. With the $0.1149 per mile, it ends up being $2.8725 every 25 miles, so not a huge bump but definitely grows kind of crazy if your stuck using public charging

 

[BlueMach]

am I imagining things. It seems the cost to charge using public stations is just as expensive as putting gas in the tank? ie no cost savings electric vs. gas if using public sites?

Chris

Someone's gotta pay for the cost of these stations which are easily in the six figures per charger. The faster you charge, the more expensive it costs, because the charger costs more, the electrical grid capacity fee costs more, plus it's worth more to you.

50 kW DCFCs can be very reasonable. 350 kW DCFCs (like EA), less so.

 

[zvez]

Someone's gotta pay for the cost of these stations which are easily in the six figures per charger. The faster you charge, the more expensive it costs, because the charger costs more, the electrical grid capacity fee costs more, plus it's worth more to you.

50 kW DCFCs can be very reasonable. 350 kW DCFCs (like EA), less so.

I'm thinking since this will be my wife's car, it'll never be used on long trips so I won't really be needing the network. I guess for my purposes I'll view it as a needed service for emergencies or an unexpected long trip

 

[JellyBelly]

am I imagining things. It seems the cost to charge using public stations is just as expensive as putting gas in the tank? ie no cost savings electric vs. gas if using public sites?

Chris

Without getting into specific numbers and arguments - the high level way to look at this is - EV charging comes out to cheaper for day to day use by charging at home. Public charging is expensive and rates vary by location, provider etc but generally expensive than home electric rates. If one is planning to use public charging all the time, it will be more expensive than home electric rates again generally speaking. Compared to gas - it depends on the location - if you are in a state with low gas prices versus higher gas prices.

 

[efisher]

I think that Ford just packed in some items that they can improve through OTA updates. I would expect over time to see them announce "better range", "Faster Charging" "Improved Charge curve", etc.

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