Ken7

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Pete, I'd agree that for most people a range delta of 50 miles will not be a deciding factor, despite some in the EV world saying 400 miles will be the 'magic number' to get more onboard. Probably more important than a difference of 50 miles is the charging network. In that respect Tesla has no peers. That's my biggest concern with the ME, but I'll be OK.
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silverelan

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I'm guessing that for those that actually look at their normal driving pattern, a lower range for the Mach E will not be the deciding factor unless all other factors leave them with a coin toss and the range pushes it to Tesla. We rarely drive far enough to make the range a factor and when it would be, a little planning should suffice. And especially if you have another ICE car in your driveway, range will not be a big issue for most people especially if you are talking 270 vs. 315 miles. kWh/mile would also be low on my list of considerations, but that may not be the case for others.
40 miles is a pretty big gap and one that needs to be closed down to make range less of a selling point for the Tesla.
EA spaces their charging stations 70ish miles apart and so 40 miles of range can make all the difference between stretching to the next station or pulling in early to ensure a charge is made.

You make a good point on the kilowatt hours per mile metric. Ultimately, people care very little about efficiency or battery size when all they really care about is range per charge and how long does it take to recharge. If both the Tesla Model Y and the Mustang Mach E get approximately the same range per charge, then nobody really cares how big the battery was to get there. It's much the same way in that nobody cares how big their gas tank is, just that I can drive X number of miles before refueling.
 

Nak

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Haha, you mean once they fix all the non latching Model Y hatches and misaligned seats. ? Looking at the QC on the Model Y from the various threads online... good grief.
See this is what I mean. I find Confirmation bias funny. "All the". Hilarious. A couple of vehicles of a new model and all of a sudden it's "All the". LOL

Sandy Munro "For an early stage car this is pretty good." Fit and Finish

I know some of you care and some of you will freak out that I mention this, but my Performance Model Y is near perfect. A couple of tiny alignment issues that I'll have rectified after the current crisis is over, but no big deal. Certainly it's better than the Nissans, BMWs, GMs, and yes, Fords I've owned. Hopefully Ford will step up, and I believe they will. They are going to have to.
 

dbsb3233

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Pete, I'd agree that for most people a range delta of 50 miles will not be a deciding factor, despite some in the EV world saying 400 miles will be the 'magic number' to get more onboard. Probably more important than a difference of 50 miles is the charging network. In that respect Tesla has no peers. That's my biggest concern with the ME, but I'll be OK.
That's the same conclusion I came to when deciding between the SR and ER batteries (AWD). The 60 mile difference in range just isn't enough to expand my planned usage for the vehicle enough to spend the extra $5000. Especially because 60 miles isn't really 60 miles. The only time I'd expect to drive more one full battery range is on a highway road trip at high speed. 75 MPH with A/C or heat on probably drops that 60 mile differential to 40.

It's all a series of Catch-22s. Around-town driving gets the better mileage and makes the range numbers more achievable. But few people need to drive 200+ miles hanging around home. If charging overnight at home (as most do), 200 is plenty. Where range really matters is on long road trips. But that usually means highway speeds, where range plummets. "300" is more like 200-250 at high speed. Catch-22.

As you say, that's where the charging network matters. But even with good coverage, there's the slow charging time issue that will continue to put a damper on BEVs for long road trips. Thus many people will buy them as their around-town vehicle (and not worry so much about range, as long as it's 200+). And use ICE/PHEV for road trips.
 


dbsb3233

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all they really care about is range per charge and how long does it take to recharge.
Yep. And to refine that just a bit further, it's "how long does it take to recharge" on a retail charger. The time for recharging at home overnight is mostly irrelevant (10-12 hours overnight is usually plenty to fill the battery). It's road-trip stops where that time becomes a real issue for many.
 

dbsb3233

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Especially given how cheap electricity is.
At home retail rates, anyway. By my estimates for my situation, the electricity cost per mile on the Mach-e (charging at home) will be roughly 1/3rd compared to what it is for gasoline for a similar vehicle.

But that savings mostly goes away when retail charging at EA's rates. In fact in some cases, the calculation came out to costing more than gas.

It varies greatly depending on the expected usage of the vehicle.
 

Ken7

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This. Especially given how cheap electricity is.
Well that has a huge geographical caveat. Here on L.I., our electric rates are about .20/kWh and gas prices as of today are $2.09/gal. It’s unequivocally more expensive for me to drive my S than a typical ICE vehicle and much more than my wife’s ES300h, that gets 40-45mpg.
 

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See this is what I mean. I find Confirmation bias funny. "All the". Hilarious. A couple of vehicles of a new model and all of a sudden it's "All the". LOL

Sandy Munro "For an early stage car this is pretty good." Fit and Finish

I know some of you care and some of you will freak out that I mention this, but my Performance Model Y is near perfect. A couple of tiny alignment issues that I'll have rectified after the current crisis is over, but no big deal. Certainly it's better than the Nissans, BMWs, GMs, and yes, Fords I've owned. Hopefully Ford will step up, and I believe they will. They are going to have to.
I’m sure the majority are fine and glad yours is great. But how many model Ys have been produced yet? Even a single car with a non closing hatch or is unacceptable, not to mention at this price level. I get it, brand new model, sure panel gaps and minor misalignment aren’t surprising from Tesla. But a hatch issue like that, and also a center light panel hanging loose like I’ve heard of, that’s downright embarrassing.

(Full disclosure, I am long TSLA and long F, and have a MME on reservation)
 

Orangefirefish

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Well that has a huge geographical caveat. Here on L.I., our electric rates are about .20/kWh and gas prices as of today are $2.09/gal. It’s unequivocally more expensive for me to drive my S than a typical ICE vehicle and much more than my wife’s ES300h, that gets 40-45mpg.
Similarly, out here in Pacific Gas and Electric territory, tier 2 rates (which pretty much every SFH gets to each month without much effort) are $0.29. At projected MME efficiency of ~3.3/kW, that’s $0.09/mi. At current gas prices here, about $2.80, although atypically low, that’s about dead even with a moderately efficient vehicle (31mpg).
 

Nak

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I’m sure the majority are fine and glad yours is great. But how many model Ys have been produced yet? Even a single car with a non closing hatch or is unacceptable, not to mention at this price level. I get it, brand new model, sure panel gaps and minor misalignment aren’t surprising from Tesla. But a hatch issue like that, and also a center light panel hanging loose like I’ve heard of, that’s downright embarrassing.
I won't disagree that it's unacceptable, but it is life. Certainly my BMW was worse, along with every other new car I've ever bought. Look at the issues the Taycan is having with fit and finish... At least Tesla fixes things. In fact, mobile service just left my house after fixing my issues. I set up my appointment Monday. Do you think BMW, Audi or Porsche are going to come out to your house and fix your panel alignment issue a couple of days after you call them? No. BMW sure didn't with me. They fought me when I complained about panel alignments that were worse than what I had with my Y.

The Mach-e will have similar issues when new. That's the life of an early adopter. If Ford steps up and matches or exceeds the experience I have with Tesla they'll do well. Personally I think they will. That's why they're targeting the Y; they know they have to change the way they're doing business and they know that Tesla is setting the new standard. I am very much looking forward to having a choice when it comes to a quality EV that I can afford.
 

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Everyone is right about cheap electricity. Sorry, I've just gotten used to .08/kwh. That said, gas is cheap now but I wouldn't count on it staying cheap... In fact when all of this is over I think we'll see a steady climb to a price well above the old price. The oil industry is going to face a contraction in capability due to the current prices forcing the close of some facilities.
 

dbsb3233

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That said, gas is cheap now but I wouldn't count on it staying cheap... In fact when all of this is over I think we'll see a steady climb to a price well above the old price. The oil industry is going to face a contraction in capability due to the current prices forcing the close of some facilities.
That cycle usually takes years though. What we'll see immediately effected by low oil prices is a severe drop in exploration and NEW drilling. But existing wells keep pumping for a decade or two. Once you've already sunk all that money into getting that well and production facilities in place, it's still usually better to recover SOME of the costs than none of them. So usually the existing wells keep pumping. That's why the history of oil price cycles is often 10-15 years long.

While oil won't stay in the $20's for long, it will likely stay below $60 for many years (which is still fairly low). And gasoline under $3 in most of the US for at least the next 2-3 years, and probably for most of the decade. And in fact, since the gradual shift to BEVs and PHEVs will be taking place this decade, demand is likely to decline thru the decade. 2019 may prove to be the historical peak for worldwide oil demand.
 

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Everyone is right about cheap electricity. Sorry, I've just gotten used to .08/kwh.
Dang, it’s 3 cents more on this side of the river.
 

Nak

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Dang, it’s 3 cents more on this side of the river.
Seriously? My buddy in West Linn is paying $.075/kwh, and that's not even using the deal where you pay less at night.
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