2021 Mach-E won't get 2022 usable Battery Increase

[jlauro]

A number of pundits don’t think legacy auto will survive the transition to EVs. They think that all that will be left in a few years will be Tesla, BYD, NIO Great Wall and VW. They are on the fence with Ford. GM has no prayer. If Ford doubles down on the model year time capsule business model they won’t make it. We will see.

I hear that about VW, but always wonder what they are smoking. GM is in far better shape than VW in terms of surviving the transition to EVs. You need to look at what the companies are doing instead of what they are saying.

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[RedDragon]

Also wouldn't supporting updates for longer mean an OEM could make more money?

If you say upfront you will support SOFTWARE updates to car for 10 years (or whatever the right number is), you will be able to charge more for a car up front than another car that will not offer that feature. Cost of Software updates for that vintage car plus others have a very low marginal cost per vehicle and can be pushed out on vehicles with their exiting hardware. In fact you are likely improving on the software anyway for future vehicles and much of this could be backward compatible. Thus the lifetime profitability if a car is probably higher with updates versus not given ability to charge more upfront. Updates are a huge reason I pay a premium for evs v ice cars today.

It gets even better if OEM if you can can see if ppl will pay something small for updates, as that would be all incremental dollars to bottom line.

No one expects the hardware to be changed out, unless it's a recall or product defect. It's not like you can go and get your phone screen changed out bc the next gen has more resolution. However software is updated all the time to improve critical performance features.

If the legacy oems doesn't transition to the new model they would lose profitability and also potentially market share.

 

[jlauro]

3G modems being obsolete has zero to do with the automakers....

My Ford alarm and remote start was made obsolete a year ago by the third party provider with no upgrade path.

Many consumers point the finger in the wrong direction.

They picked the technology, they secured the contracts, etc... ultimately it's their fault for outsourcing and not properly vetting it and need to take responsibility for the technology they include.

Much the same as companies that put all their IT in AWS or other public cloud (especially if they run only in a single region). They are still responsible for outages even if AWS has a problem.

 

[RedDragon]

They picked the technology, they secured the contracts, etc... ultimately it's their fault for outsourcing and not properly vetting it and need to take responsibility for the technology they include.

Much the same as companies that put all their IT in AWS or other public cloud (especially if they run only in a single region). They are still responsible for outages even if AWS has a problem.

Agree here.

Furthermore, if it's a practice that isnt changed people will remember and go elsewhere with their next purchase.

 

[Mach1E]

Windows is supported for about 10 years with “free” updates. Car manufacturers have to stock repair parts for 10 years. iPhones are supported for 6+ years.

And the only relevant info is the part about car parts.

How many years are those car parts “free?”

 

[Mach1E]

Agree here.

Furthermore, if it's a practice that isnt changed people will remember and go elsewhere with their next purchase.

Maybe? Maybe not. Depends on what the updates cost after 3 years and if there is anything even worth getting or paying for.

None of my previous cars got free GPS updates outside of warranty. And I still never paid for the map update even though I drive the cars for 6-7 yrs each.

 

[Gixxer750]

3G modems being obsolete has zero to do with the automakers....

My Ford alarm and remote start was made obsolete a year ago by the third party provider with no upgrade path.

Many consumers point the finger in the wrong direction.

I wouldn't say zero. It is the OEM that specifies the requirements to the supplier. If the OEM did not make efforts to futureproof their product using a standard already in use, then that is nearsightedness. I know it is a cost driven decision but making a modem 4G/LTE compatible is peanuts even at volume.

 

[SWO]

I hear that about VW, but always wonder what they are smoking. GM is in far better shape than VW in terms of surviving the transition to EVs. You need to look at what the companies are doing instead of what they are saying.

Umm...what? GM has a $100k Meme Truck (Hummer), a recalled clown car (Bolt), and a vaporware Rwd only Caddy (Lyriq).

Meanwhile, VW is bringing several viable models to market and competing in Europe where there's an even stronger push for EVs.

 

[jlauro]

Umm...what? GM has a $100k Meme Truck (Hummer), a recalled clown car (Bolt), and a vaporware Rwd only Caddy (Lyriq).

Meanwhile, VW is bringing several viable models to market and competing in Europe where there's an even stronger push for EVs.

The hummer is brilliant. Not mass market, but high margin. If that was their only vehicle you would have a point, but it is not. They are also coming out with an all-electric Silverado, so it's not only the hummer in terms of a truck.
The Bolt was second only to Tesla in the US for sales, followed by the Mach E. (Well, that was through Q3, with the recall that might flip with EOY numbers).
The debut edition of the Lyriq is only RWD, but it is coming out in AWD later, details expected by end of 2022. The Lyriq is no more vaporware than the Mach E was back in 2019. VW has been promising EVs for over a decade and have fallen short far more often than GM. Not that GM has been fast moving, but they at least have did what they said, which is more than what can be said of VW empty promises.

VW has the whole diselgate, not to mention purposely low spec the id.4 so as not to compete with their ICE vehicles. The clown car as you put it has better acceleration than the id.4. VW is just sleazy and has a habit of over promising and under delivering.

I don't care what VW is doing in Europe. What are they doing in the states... failing to bring models here (to the USA) is a strike against them, not a plus.

 

[SWO]

The hummer is brilliant. Not mass market, but high margin. If that was their only vehicle you would have a point, but it is not. They are also coming out with an all-electric Silverado, so it's not only the hummer in terms of a truck.
The Bolt was second only to Tesla in the US for sales, followed by the Mach E. (Well, that was through Q3, with the recall that might flip with EOY numbers).
The debut edition of the Lyriq is only RWD, but it is coming out in AWD later, details expected by end of 2022. The Lyriq is no more vaporware than the Mach E was back in 2019. VW has been promising EVs for over a decade and have fallen short far more often than GM. Not that GM has been fast moving, but they at least have did what they said, which is more than what can be said of VW empty promises.

VW has the whole diselgate, not to mention purposely low spec the id.4 so as not to compete with their ICE vehicles. The clown car as you put it has better acceleration than the id.4. VW is just sleazy and has a habit of over promising and under delivering.

I don't care what VW is doing in Europe. What are they doing in the states... failing to bring models here (to the USA) is a strike against them, not a plus.

How many more taxpayer bailouts will GM require before that Electric Silverado actually comes to market? I haven't even seen a concept yet.

I'm sure the Hummer will have nice margins, but it's not going to gain them market share or compete with any EV trucks or SUVs.

AWD Lyric might not even show up until maybe 2023? There's not even specs for it. My FIL wanted one but ordered a MachE Premium instead after seeing ours with no updates from Cadillac.

The Bolt is stigmatizing. Status vehicles do well with eccentric designs, but the Bolt is an economy car.

The real death knell is the expired tax incentives. GM blew their wad on the Volt, so they're at an a $7500 disadvantage to their competitors.

 

[Mach1E]

How many more taxpayer bailouts will GM require before that Electric Silverado actually comes to market? I haven't even seen a concept yet.

I'm sure the Hummer will have nice margins, but it's not going to gain them market share or compete with any EV trucks or SUVs.

AWD Lyric might not even show up until maybe 2023? There's not even specs for it. My FIL wanted one but ordered a MachE Premium instead after seeing ours with no updates from Cadillac.

The Bolt is stigmatizing. Status vehicles do well with eccentric designs, but the Bolt is an economy car.

The real death knell is the expired tax incentives. GM blew their wad on the Volt, so they're at an a $7500 disadvantage to their competitors.

I thought the writing was on the wall for GM when they announced “100% electric by 2035.”

Their least profitable, worst selling and worst vehicles they make are their electric cars.

And they decided, “hey, what if we ONLY make the things that are terrible and lose money?”

Seems like a horrible business decision. I think they were just hoping to get a stock jump like Tesla where the stock price has nothing to do with actual vehicle sales and profits.

 

[jlauro]

Their least profitable, worst selling and worst vehicles they make are their electric cars.

Sounds like FUD. Do you have a reference? Excluding Tesla, the Bolt is the best selling EV in the US. AFAK they have worse selling vehicles. Looking at the sales numbers, I see plenty of vehicles selling worse from GM.

 

[Ride_the_lightning]

So far, in 18 pages, everyone seams to be conflating “software updates after 36k miles” with “free software updates after 36k miles.” Cars now have a lot of computer technology in them. However, they still cost upwards of 50k and need to have a reasonable expectation that their useful life will be similar to cars in the past. That means 150k+ miles and 10+ years.

But it doesn’t mean everything has to be free. If my center screen or some infotainment chip dies after 4 years I expect Ford to have a reasonable way to fix it ($1k to $2k max, same as I paid to replace the radiator fan assembly in my Nissan after 4 years). I also don’t mind paying for an update that lets me use modern Apple CarPlay in 3 years once this version is obsolete.


Next, to keep dealers happy and extend margins on used cars (if they intend to keep using dealers) , it would be smart to design cars with upgradable chips and screens. We used to be able to do this with aftermarket stereo systems, but that’s impossible now. So Ford needs to have some way to upgrade the parts with a 3-5 year useful life so the rest of the car can have a 10-15 year useful life. Dealers could upgrade the infotainment in older cars prior to reselling them, making them more attractive and increasing resale value. I hope Ford does this with the Mach E. If I could buy a used car in 5 years, pay an extra $1500 to upgrade the infotainment to a modern system, that would be great. Ford could even make a nice profit on selling that upgrade.

 

[jlauro]

How many more taxpayer bailouts will GM require before that Electric Silverado actually comes to market? I haven't even seen a concept yet.

Reveal is Jan 5th. https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/upcoming-all-electric-silverado
Probably largely a reaction to the success of the F-150 Lightning with preorders.

I'm sure the Hummer will have nice margins, but it's not going to gain them market share or compete with any EV trucks or SUVs.

They will compete, but not significantly... More of a status symbol than direct competition though.

AWD Lyric might not even show up until maybe 2023? There's not even specs for it. My FIL wanted one but ordered a MachE Premium instead after seeing ours with no updates from Cadillac.

True. Detail info should be out this year, but doubt you will be able to buy one (maybe a Q4 2022 earliest).

The real death knell is the expired tax incentives. GM blew their wad on the Volt, so they're at an a $7500 disadvantage to their competitors.

Tesla is in the same boat, and Ford will likely be in the same boat in a year (or at least in the phase out). Of course who know what the government might do... Short term that matters, but in the long term it's moot (assuming the companies don't fold too quickly).

VW is the most indebt company in the world (2020, not sure 2021). To be fair, much of VW’s debt is tied to its large financing division and several automakers fall under high debt financing their sales...

 

[Jimrpa]

According to FordPass website (not the mobile app)....the connected nav trial period ends after 3 years. That means nav updates won't be included unless you pay extra for it.

I think you missed my point: I do not yet have BlueCruise. Once BlueCruise is available, it is supposed to be available for 3 years, which will be beyond the 3 year mark for me (say ford activates BlueCruise 1 April 2022, that would be 1 year after I got my car. I suspect BlueCruise requires accurate maps, so that tells me that I’d have to have updates for the duration of BlueCruise.

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